Why should that be rare? Not every war is "we both meet halfway on a battlefield" like were fighting in the Napoleonic era. War is often met with changing conditions and unique challenges that a group must overcome. Sure if you're taking part in some huge trench war of thousands of men maybe its a bit more I shoot You shoot but there are many different types of battle you can use for this game. Maybe I'm just unique in that I try to craft challenges that actually keep players on their toes, but I'm just applying basic encounter design from any RPG that sometimes compliments the players strengths but also tests their weaknesses as well.

That said war has shown precedence that even the best preparations and the advanced technology can be of little use for a clever enemy.

WittyDroog said:

I said "relatively rare". Things like a rampaging battle tank or a murderous Chaos Space Marine Berserker should be things like boss fights, not the bread and butter. And as I already said, punctuating half the firefights with a saturation barrage will get silly and old quickly. Also, if you tailor make encounters to counter the camo (and you need to because most regular enemies are nowhere near prepared to deal with a cloaked enemy) the players will feel cheated after spending their good creation points.

Also, I can't help to notice that you didn't answer my question.

 But it doesn't even have to be something grand, you can get around entrenched units with relatively simple means. If you find it difficult to shoot the target, don't engage it from the front, instead move to a position where they're forced to leave their position either by flanking, moving through cover that they can no longer shoot you in, or simply hang tight and make the enemy come to you. If the enemy is staying put as well then rethink how you could flush them out, you could lob grenades, use flame weapons, or make a called shot with a blast weapon that strikes the ground near them (negating the advantage of the cloak). I mean try to think like an actual military unit and how they would handle the situation, because this kind of thing isn't unheard of.

Chaos Marines or a Russ would certainly be a boss fight, but what about a mob of crazed cultists that surround you with mass numbers? Or maybe fast vehicles or bikes that can easily skirt to your position? Winged tyranids swooping down and attacking you? Coming up with ways to combat a unit that turtles up isn't hard even with relatively basic means and not bringing in the Baneblades. As far as making the cloak useless that's why I specifically mentioned making encounters that both compliment their strengths and challenge their weaknesses. You could set up an encounter where the players attack a group of surprised Chaos Renegades and get into a war of attrition. Seeing that they can't effectively strike the players without losing too many members, the renegades call in for support which could be in the form of another unit coming in from a flank, a couple of mortar shells, even releasing a pack of wild dogs or something. The cloaks aren't useless, and you shouldn't deny the players the chance to use them, but at the same token you also shouldn't let them sit still ALL DAY and make them adapt to changes on the field. Oh no I need to move for a round or two my doctrine points are UTTERLY WASTED. The reason these cloaks have that stipulation that they must remain still is to give it a drawback as opposed to a flat bonus that's always active, so it shouldn't be a factor in every Encounter. Just as you say that being shelled every encounter would get tiresome, so would having every encounter just be standing and shooting every round until one side dies. 

We've gotten quite a bit off-topic, how about you guys start a different thread if you want to discuss Cameleoline?

I have to ask, but what's the point of a drop regiment if we don't have Valkyrie stats to go with them?  I know RT has them, but RT's vehicles are not balanced against OW's vehicles, which, until the recent nerf, were balanced against DW.  Now with the nerf it's someplace in between…

BaronIveagh said:

We don't have aircraft because the developers have a limited space and they didn't want to use it on all the rules that would be required for proper handling of aircraft. You're just going to have to wait for the Only War supplement book where they put all the stuff that couldn't fit into the Core rulebook, just like Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook, Rogue Trader: Into the Storm and Deathwatch: Rites of Battle.

 Yeah I'll can it and agree to disagree about the cloaks.

As far as drop troops I figured the point was to actually drop them so the Valk isn't that critical in game terms. But that's maybe because I always figured their transport as being the mission's start and end point by dropping and retrieving. The Valk isn't part of a Drop Troops standard kit so one could say the drop troops might not always be riding in one. I can understand why someone would want the stats in order to have the transport providing air support but I always figured it the transport would drop guys off and then fly back to grab more troops instead of serving as another asset like a Russ is to an Armored Regiment.

WittyDroog said:

Well, I was going by the fluff, admittedly, but usually they drop the troops and then fly CAS.  The Elysian drop troops, for example, have very limited heavy weapons, and depend on Valks and Vultures as support, according to IA and BL novels.

 Unless you want the players to specifically control a Valk I would just leave the air strikes to thematics. Like maybe the players can call for some support when they're in a pickle and you roll a couple of heavy weapon hits (Or not, at say they're tied up), maybe an interesting us of Command or Logistics?. You get the picture though, run them more thematically since the ship isn't under their direct control.

Actually now that I think of it, are Valks and other Imperial flyers actually part of the Guard or are they called in from the Imperial Navy? I don't remember.

WittyDroog said:

Technically anything that flies is Navy.  However, it gets sort of muddled in this case, as valks, like chimeras, are attached at the squad level (chimera drivers and Recon  belonging to a different company then the footsloggers they're attached to, according to IA and BL fiction).  So, no, they would loiter around the target in case the squad they are attached to need air support or extraction from a hot LZ until required to return to rearm and refuel.  Or, at least, that's how IA 3 seems to paint it.  Further, Valks are identified by the aircraft's number in the regiment they are attached to, not thier wing designation, as other aircraft are.

A single Elysian Drop Regiment has over 138 Valks if IA is to be believed, with additional airstrikes called in from much more suitable platforms, such as the Lightening Strike Fighter and Marauder.