Correction, Talented doesnt seem to exist in OW. My bad.

It was replaced by +30 on skills.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Ogryn and Ratlings are only used for two things, Remember they are abhumans and viewed with suspicion by many, and barely tolerated. They are only really tolerated where their particular skills are useful. Ogryns don't act in any role except being Ogyrns (ie dimwitted assault troops). Ratlings are only really employed as snipers.

Specialities being placed before character creation seems fine to me. Makes the players think about what they are going to be before seeing which is "the best".

If you want a return of the old Lightning Attack etc, then parry should no longer be a skill. Allowing it to get to +40 (or even 50) over WS makes it too good, unless you have the need to negate multiple hits from DoS. I personally prefer the old DH way of doing it myself, but you have to choose one system or the other, not bits of both.

Making Weapon Talents into skills is also messes around with things. That gives another +30 on top of the already generous bonuses that can be grabbed from all over the place.

borithan said:

From what I can see from the main GW sources, most Abhumans are full Imperial citizens. Only beastmen and similar are subject to official restrictions. The idea that there is officially sanctioned discrimination against all Abhumans seems to have no 'cannon' support - please reference it if you find it. Obviously it's not an unreasonable assumption, but the Imperium being an aparteid society isn't the GW position - I stand to be corrected on this.

The IG codex only mentions Ratlings as snipers, but reading this as a hard limit is an over-reading imo. Ratlings might make excellent gunners on fixed emplacements or on aircraft. They might make good pilots. Modifying controls or given them MUIs isn't beyond imagining. Why not a Ratling medic? An Imperial Governor with a 50% Ratling population might wish to fill as many positions as possible with Ratlings.

This might make interesting section in a future supplement imo. Ymmv.

 I'd like to sugest to change the Aptitude fellowship in the weapon specialist for Offense or Defence.

yeah that whole aptitude system… I was kinda a fan, now I am more and more opposed to it. it's almost impossible for a psyker to be a valuable melee fighter. Every skill, Talent and Stat concerning Melee has to be advanced with 0 aptitudes.

I would like for them to include, that at chargen every character could add one aptitude of choice.

vogue69 said:

That might be related with how they're focused on blowing people to bits with their mind, not club them to death with that fancy walking stick they get. They're Authorized Psykers, not Space Marine Librarians. 

JuankiMan said:

so why do they have a whole melee weapon arsenal dedicated to them specificly and start out with a best quality low-tec weapon?

 of course they have STR as an aptitude, because psykers are known for their bodybuilding heritage.

A staff is largely irellevant.

And a force weapon really just needs to hit. And that can come about a great many ways (e.g. psykers can buff themselves).

so it makes more sense for them to get the STR aptitude then a WS aptitude?

just to hit… so i guess in their training sessions they all stand around clumsy swinging wildly to just land a hit? no swift attack, no precision strikes, no lightning attacks, no dual-wiedling, nada? they just give them an extremely rare weapon and tell them: swing until you hit something?

I mean they buff using psychic powers. Instead of relying on sheer strength or skill they prepare themselves mentally. Abilities like Iron Arm or Warp Speed replace any need for straight WS or Str advances. As far as Swift Attack/Lightning Attack, well… Swift Attack is cheap enough to buy on its own. Sure, its still alot of XP, but its not unreasonable.

Heck, even invisibility is useful.

Also, where are your psykers magically getting their force weapons from? Its not really something covered in "training."

vogue69 said:

In their training sessions they meditate, train in focusing their minds, learn rites of protection, recite chants of abjuration and generally learn how not to be the cause of a daemonic invasion. In fact, most don't see a psychic weapon in their whole lives, so it's unlikely they give them such a rare weapon during their training. They'd likely blow themselves up.

@JuankiMan

you forgot pushups, lifting weights and benchpresses
 

IMHO they should scrap the STR aptitude and replace it with an aptitude according to the specialisation:

Biomancy -> Defense

Divination -> Fieldcraft

Pyromancy -> Offense

Telekinesis -> Offense

Telepathy -> Leadership / Social

double post please delete