You know, aside from being weedy, there is nothing a Ratling can do in and of himself that a WS cannot do.

They can have the same scores, skills and talents (admittedly at different XP levels.)

The differences that this thread has been argueing about for 7 pages lie entirely in the comrades. Who can die. And then, until you get issued replacement bullet stops by the Munitorium, the ratling and the WS are exactly the same except the ratling gets encumbered by his own bootlaces.

For that matter, the comrades are people, you can always say "Prvt Dodge Killer, you're with Specialist Jenkins today. Prvt. Caddy Mann you're with the ankle-biter." Can you find a place in the rules that says you can't trade comrades like pokemon?

 I'm pretty sure that ratlings (In the codex and fluff) don't use standard issue gear, aren't great at following orders or standing up to enemies (Literally OR figuratively,)

You'd never see a ratling heavy gunner (Kick'd break his little twiggy arms), operator (can't see over the dashboard), Sgt. poor leadership skills (Ld 5 in codex) Weapon Specialists (special weapons are too big, no one makes kiddie sized meltas) Priests (Dirty abhumans being in the ecclesiarchy, feh,) Commissars (Ratlings don't get into Schola) Ogryns (Duh) Psykers (Abhumans don't get psychic mutations afaik, and if they did, they'd likely be executed as they skirt the line on being mutants anyways.) stormtroopers (Not hardy enough) or Techpriests (again, I don't think they make mechanicum implants for midgets.) Pretty much the ony specialty I see them as is Medic.

Perhaps the comrade bonuses should not so much be considered as roles that a specific comrade has developed into, but rather, techniques a class has learned to forge with others.

Take sergeants and their vox operators. Anyone can carry a vox, but only a Sergeant is able to as effectively use a vox operator to give orders like he does.

A Ratling is more communicative when working with his comrade, and is thus able to better process information, thus getting the spotter perk. A WS may use his comrade as a spotter, but does not benefit from the same aiming bonus.

If you consider the comrade talents to be less about "who" a comrade is, and more about "how" your PC interacts with them, then it makes some more sense.

Fenrisnorth said:

Yeah, that's what I've read, too. Then again, the RPG already allows people considerable leeway in doing things, anyways. The Storm Trooper should not even be a potential member of a squad, unless it's a 100% Storm Trooper squad. Whoever wrote the class did find a rather good explanation to this and make it seem reasonable, though. Yet by the same vein, it'd be easy to find an excuse to use Ratlings as, say, heavy gunners - like claiming excessive casualties, so that the cook has to help out. Both doesn't really swing with the Codex descriptions, but I can totally see players doing this.

Fenrisnorth said:

"Quick, accurate fire" compared to short range automatic weapons. It works quite well in Only War if you take the Long Las and the rest of the squad has M36's. It fills a tactical niche by increasing the squad's engagement range, and then resorting to picking off priority targets whereas the rest of the team (potentially excluding the heavy weapons guy) opens up and decimates the enemy numbers in general. Accuracy vs rate of fire, basically. Makes for a nice balanced teamplay, in my mind.

With the M36 compared to Las Carbines, however, there's not much to be said about filling niches. The M36 is both more accurate and able to shoot faster, making it plain superior to the other weapon in all fields sans reload time and weight (which don't really play an important role).

Fenrisnorth said:

Oh, I can relate. I wouldn't advocate it either. I'm just pointing out options that are available for players where they would just be strange - and where options are missing even though you'd expect them to be available.

Andor said:

True. I suppose I would generally welcome the Comrade system being as open as the character progression is. The downside I realize is that, of course, this means that the classes lose some additional "uniqueness", as the comrades are one of the very few exclusive perks they get. That being said, these are rank and file Guardsmen we're talking about. The differences should mainly lie with role and personality rather than unique comrade bonuses that, realistically, anyone should be able to get. It should be more about what you make out of what you're given, rather than what the book is throwing at you. Isn't that the entire point of having an open character progression in the first place?

KommissarK said:

In this particular case, meaning Hail of Fire vs Spotter, there's not much about interaction, though. In both instances, the comrade shoots at the target, and the target reacts by evasion. Why isn't the target Dodging the Hail of Fire? Why isn't the target Pinned by the Spotter shot? It's just a bit weird.

Oh well, poor Dasha is dead, anyways. Rolling up a plasma gunner for tomorrow now. Wish me (better) luck, comrades! ;)

KommissarK said:

And makes the game even MORE class based, and the Ratling even MORE the specialist sniper no human can ever approach than ever before…