Plushy said:

That's a really good question. The "Hulking" trait supposedly makes people easier to target since they are just larger. Here it is applied to Space Marines in a rather weird way in that (a) they shouldn't really become that much bigger since they are already massive and (b) they can, for some reason, counteract this effect with their black carapace, as if that would make them any smaller.

From reading the explanation in DW, it very much sounds like two ideas ("hulking = size" vs "hulking = agility") clashing against each other. I suppose it's up to personal interpretation if it is applied best to the body, to the armour, or even not at all.

Musclewizard said:

I think ultimately it comes down to whether the group prefers FFG's vision that there is a difference between these weapons, or GW's vision that there isn't. I for one know which way would be more balanced and enjoyable for a mixed party in an RPG. Ultimately, an Astartes Scout is still going to shine - he's just going to shine more in CC and general survivability than in ranged combat (compared to other characters), which I think is the general idea behind Space Marines.

Personally, I would also abstain from Unnatural traits and simply give the class a flat +20, but that's just because I never understood the reason for Unnatural Traits in the first place and always thought they were more trouble than they're worth.

Lynata said:

The reason for Unnatural Characteristics works best with Strength. Unnatural Strength would only affect melee attack damage, whereas a +20 would also affect skills. I gave him Hulking because Space Marines are huge due to their surgeries and being easier to hit is a fine drawback. For this, I intended his weapons to be regular (trading fluff for balance) and am eager to try him in a playtest.

Plushy said:

That's true, but shouldn't it also affect skills? To me, it would seem natural that a Space Marine is just a lot better at stuff like climbing or intimidating. And I say that whilst usually argueing against people exaggerating their supposed abilities! :D

By keeping it at a "low" +20, it should come out rather okay'ish in that the character is the designated go-to guy for anything that involves muscle work, but at the same time doesn't result in an auto-win all the time. (I hope)

Lynata said:

With the current rules, you can bring a stat up by 20 points with xp. A space marine with lucky rolls could have S 60 as-is; by giving him +20 S, that would instead go up to 80. That's a bit much.

Plushy said:

I mean, by the point he reached that level of experience, I'd say he earned it (and should probably qualify to become a "full" Marine well before). You could also houserule that these stats can only be increased in steps of 3 or so, justifying it with something being hard to improve when it has already been "pushed" so much (by surgery, gene-therapy and implantation). This way, the highest such a character could achieve would be a 72 as opposed to 80. Not much of a difference, but still.

Just an idea off the top of my head, tho. Go with what you feel is best for your game! :)

Space Marines are big, but they're not so large as to deserve the "Hulking" trait. Hulking creatures are things like Ogryns and Ork Nobz.

JuankiMan said:

I think they've been statted out as such in multiple books before.

Plushy said:

I'm quite sure that's because they are wearing power armour in all books they appear in.

Musclewizard said:
Should the Scout really be hulking from the get go, I always thought its the power armour that make 'em hulking and the black carapace that removes it (or at least the to-hit bonus the enemies get). Shouldn't scouts use Astartes Shotguns, Sniper Rifles and Astartes Bolters from DW? I'm assuming those are more powerful than their human counterparts which would lead to some balancing problems.

Musclewizard said:

I would say yes. They're like two-meter-tall fridge-shaped cybered super-mutants several times the mass of standard humans. In most images, the Space Marine is pretty snug within his armour; certainly no more of a bulk-grade than a guardsman wearing full carapace.

If the stats say Hulking, you could easily argue that the black carapace lets them use those servos [so hard not to think 'myomer bundles'] for more than straight-line movement. It gives them very little speed because they're already buffed to the gills in that department, but oh hey, power-steering.

Deathwatch already explained this. Space Marines are not Hulking. They're large, but not that large. Power Armour, on the other hand, increases their size to Hulking as it does everyone, but the Black Carapace allows them to have an inhuman level of agility and finesse inside it, so they don't give a +10 bonus to be hit but retain all other bonuses and penalties (+1 to movement, -10 to Stealth).

So no, a Space Marine Scout would not be Hulking.

JuankiMan said:

Which is rather strange when you think about it. Is it really just because of the pauldrons? I understand it for Terminator suits, but the more I think about it, it just sounds wrong for normal suits of power armour…

On the other hand, Ogryns in OW get the Hulking trait as well, and I would assume they are about Space Marine size. Which means that Marines should be Hulking without PA, whereas normal humans wouldn't be even when wearing PA - unless they don Terminator armour.

Meh, interpretations, I guess. Perhaps power armour is just supposed to be a lot thicker in this RPG than it is in GW's fluff.

I'm pretty sure Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau's "skin tight powered armour" is a bit of a rarity in 40k.

Lynata said:

I think it's more that PA puts you on the low scale of hulking agility and size wise (think Ork Nob level), while other things are on the large end of the hulking size (thinks like Ogryns and Ork Bosses); adding size categories in the middle only makes the game more complicated. Suffices to say that PA makes you bigger, taller and more less agile than being unarmored, and I would therefore say that marines are not hulking without the PA, as they aren't bigger than an otherwise very big human (ignoring Tech Priest with near full-body replacements). 

KommissarK said:

Doesn't have to be skin tight - but an armour thickness of "up to an inch" (going purely by GW fluff, though!) shouldn't really make people that much bigger. Else we may as well start to apply individual size categories to human characters depending on what height they have on the character sheet. ;)

The truly interesting thing is that even assuming that all the characters' size category increases with PA, their natural bodies would not. How does their biological body get injured by, say, an SP bullet that would have missed that arm had the target retained its original size? If we wanted to nitpick, this would represent the bullet simply hitting a part of the armour that has no flesh underneath whatsoever. I'm sure that excuses can be found to justify the injury, such as shrapnel or similar "splash damage", or even armour damage causing some sort of feedback surge, but still …

Props for remembering the most awesome 40k character of all time, though! ;)

MorioMortis said:

Well, Space Marines aren't higher than very big humans … but they are certainly wider. At least that is what Jes Goodwin pointed out as he joked about Marines getting progressively bigger in the novels. "It's not about the height - it's about how massive they are!"

To me, the threshold between normal and hulking size is just awkward. If Ogryns have it, then so should (naked) Marines imo. Or neither of them. Where do you draw the line, is there a solid number? It does not seem to be the case.
The whole Black Carapace deal is something I find a bit strange as well. As if being more agile makes you harder to hit when you get shot in the back without warning. I think it would have been handier to just ditch it for normal power armour and only apply it to Terminator suits - where, coincidentally, even Marines aren't any more agile than normal humans, avoiding the necessity for a special rule to have them retain their agility.
Or, perhaps, a flat Agility penalty (-5? -10? might depend on quality) for power armour instead of a size modifier, again negated by the Black Carapace …

Of course this is all very much a matter of opinion and a good deal of simple gut-feeling, I guess.