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Lead the charge against the enemies of mankind
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Unfortunately I have to agree with the prediction stated above regarding torrents. Regardless this coupon for the pdf version has now gotten me on board (though I swear it was not there earlier). I am one of the few who buy the physical and digital copies of a lot of these books, so having a preorder of sorts on the digital copy in return for beta testing is fine by me.
signoftheserpent said:
You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer. I don't want the pdf version. What use is it to me? PDF's are awkward enough as it is when they try to emulate weighty full colour print books, but if you don't have a laptop/tablet (and I don't) they are worse than useless. Consequenlty I'm left with only the print version. That's quite enough for me, I was happy enough to buy that, but paying into this beta so I can subsidise people that want pdf products (which are already absurdly priced, as if they were equivalent to the print copies - that's a whole other discussion!)? No thanks. Please rethink this, it's an absolutely awful scheme, and you can be sure - not that i condone this i stress - this will see it's way onto torrents before you wake up tomorrow. You are doing yourself no favours here at all sir.
If you don't like PDF's, don't buy it. Wait for the print release, just like you would normally, then you can start ranting about it in a couple of months.
Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to get stupid as all hell, now did it?
Vonpenguin said:
Temudschin said:
Alright, so everyone here who is hesitant…
Tell me, what were you planning to do after you bought the REAL, finished edition .pdf, and came to the conclusion you didn't like the game (after spending more than $20)? And if god-emperor forgbid that you actually like it, you get the $20 paid for the beta copy off the .pdf of the full copy… so again, what's there to complain about?
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure GR doesn't beta-test the core-books to entirely new games, for free.
"Would you like to travel across entire sectors in months, rather than years? Would you like to blast people with warp energy? Would you like to have an extra eye? Come down to Fabius Bile's Gene Emporium, and become a New Man!"
-MILLANDSON
Wizards made plenty of money off of D&D 3.5, and they had an OGL and an online SRD. Paizo puts all content up for Pathfinder online for free, and they make plenty of money.
Of course, those are released products. I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.
I've converted Dark Heresy to the Only War system. Please take a look!
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B517sKRcjGNrcmZmV21GSkVoVVU/edit
signoftheserpent said:
Then will you SHUT UP and leave the damn forums already? I'm sick of hearing nothing but bitching and moaning from you and too many other posters.
It's enough to make me quit the damn games.
[QUOTE efidm=670791]
Wizards made plenty of money off of D&D 3.5, and they had an OGL and an online SRD. Paizo puts all content up for Pathfinder online for free, and they make plenty of money.
Of course, those are released products. I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.
[/QUOTE]
A) I don't see a lot of free stuff there for Pathfinder, and what little I do see is quite old content. And B) The important bit now, Wizards is owned by Hasbro, who are probably richest toy-company on the planet. They can shovel all the money they want in to Wizards, if it gets shakey. They can take a loss any day of the week on D&D.
"Would you like to travel across entire sectors in months, rather than years? Would you like to blast people with warp energy? Would you like to have an extra eye? Come down to Fabius Bile's Gene Emporium, and become a New Man!"
-MILLANDSON
Blood Pact said:
signoftheserpent said:
Then will you SHUT UP and leave the damn forums already? I'm sick of hearing nothing but bitching and moaning from you and too many other posters.
It's enough to make me quit the damn games.
"4. Treat everyone (users or not) with respect, while enjoying the freedom to disagree with their ideas."
Come along, Blood Pact. People are free to dislike business practices. FFG is generally good with feedback; they'll listen and decide for themselves. If you don't want to hear complaints, maybe you should consider leaving the complaint thread?
I've converted Dark Heresy to the Only War system. Please take a look!
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B517sKRcjGNrcmZmV21GSkVoVVU/edit
Plushy said:
… I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.
So they can get more eyes on the product and get changes made before the print run, thus reducing the amount of whining and moaning that goes on about proof reading and editing on these forums.
Why charge?
My guess, FFG licenses the content from GW. When GW allows their content to be free (never), the beta process might be free. Until then the hard core will buy it, proofread the hell out of it and catch stuff FFG and their people missed. Changes can get made before the print run and all those early adopters get a $20 discount on the final PDF, everyone else gets a better printed book. It is really a win/win for everyone, despite what some may think.
Since when was this was "complaint thread"?
I foolishly assumed that I'd find rational discourse and and conversation when I decided to come here, instead every second post is right back to the same ol' mantra of bullshit that I see too much.
And why? Because someone knee-jerked way too fast cause they didn't see the thing about the $20 coming off the final product (yeah yeah, it wasn't there… or could it be that the first group complaining cause they didn't read thoroughly enough. Jumping right to outrage instead of reading all three paragraphs on the page? I'm sorry, but I always bet on human stupidity…
And then the further complaints, mostly from Signs, who has produced such gems as complainign about why Dark Eldar are only just getting rules now, as opposed to years ago (…yeah, that linear progression of time is a real bitch, ain't it?). And couldn't just accept that they hadn't written them yet, back then.
So ya know what, I feel absolutely justified about my complaints… afterall, this is a complaint thread.
"Would you like to travel across entire sectors in months, rather than years? Would you like to blast people with warp energy? Would you like to have an extra eye? Come down to Fabius Bile's Gene Emporium, and become a New Man!"
-MILLANDSON
ItsUncertainWho said:
signoftheserpent said:
You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer. I don't want the pdf version. What use is it to me? PDF's are awkward enough as it is when they try to emulate weighty full colour print books, but if you don't have a laptop/tablet (and I don't) they are worse than useless. Consequenlty I'm left with only the print version. That's quite enough for me, I was happy enough to buy that, but paying into this beta so I can subsidise people that want pdf products (which are already absurdly priced, as if they were equivalent to the print copies - that's a whole other discussion!)? No thanks. Please rethink this, it's an absolutely awful scheme, and you can be sure - not that i condone this i stress - this will see it's way onto torrents before you wake up tomorrow. You are doing yourself no favours here at all sir.
If you don't like PDF's, don't buy it. Wait for the print release, just like you would normally, then you can start ranting about it in a couple of months.
You have missed the point.
I also didn't say that I disliked pdfs. What I don't like are 300 page pdf's that are produced to be an exact copy of the print version. This is not good product design; a pdf has a specific format and functions uniquely. A book is easy to leaf through, a pdf requires systme resources and an optimised layout. It doesn't need huge amounts of artwork that slow it down. Unfortunately that is my experience of pdf's.
Aside from that I prefer print books for reasons already stated. Not only that but I like to support the lifeblood of the hobby by using traditional shops. Without them FFG would soon find life very difficult. Could it survive by digital sales alone?
As I won't benefit from this beta becuase I can't get a rebate on a book, what exactly am I being charged for if I choose to help FFG playtest their product? This is just crazy. Is it fair that I should subisidise your pdf copy? I don't think so. I have no problem with you buying a pdf, that's entirely your choice and good luck to you. But this is just something that FFG came up with at the eleventh hour, pun intended, when they got wind that we weren't particularly thrilled to have top pay them to playtest their game!
Without Signature
Ahahahahaha… no.
Blood Pact said:
Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to get stupid as all hell, now did it?
Vonpenguin said:
Temudschin said:
Alright, so everyone here who is hesitant…
Tell me, what were you planning to do after you bought the REAL, finished edition .pdf, and came to the conclusion you didn't like the game (after spending more than $20)? And if god-emperor forgbid that you actually like it, you get the $20 paid for the beta copy off the .pdf of the full copy… so again, what's there to complain about?
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure GR doesn't beta-test the core-books to entirely new games, for free.
Blood Pact said:
Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to get stupid as all hell, now did it?
Vonpenguin said:
Temudschin said:
Alright, so everyone here who is hesitant…
Tell me, what were you planning to do after you bought the REAL, finished edition .pdf, and came to the conclusion you didn't like the game (after spending more than $20)? And if god-emperor forgbid that you actually like it, you get the $20 paid for the beta copy off the .pdf of the full copy… so again, what's there to complain about?
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure GR doesn't beta-test the core-books to entirely new games, for free.
Then will you SHUT UP and leave the damn forums already? I'm sick of hearing nothing but bitching and moaning from you and too many other posters.
It's enough to make me quit the damn games.
You need to grow up and calm down.
Without Signature
Blood Pact said:
Since when was this was "complaint thread"?
I foolishly assumed that I'd find rational discourse and and conversation when I decided to come here, instead every second post is right back to the same ol' mantra of bullshit that I see too much.
And why? Because someone knee-jerked way too fast cause they didn't see the thing about the $20 coming off the final product (yeah yeah, it wasn't there… or could it be that the first group complaining cause they didn't read thoroughly enough. Jumping right to outrage instead of reading all three paragraphs on the page? I'm sorry, but I always bet on human stupidity…
And then the further complaints, mostly from Signs, who has produced such gems as complainign about why Dark Eldar are only just getting rules now, as opposed to years ago (…yeah, that linear progression of time is a real bitch, ain't it?). And couldn't just accept that they hadn't written them yet, back then.
So ya know what, I feel absolutely justified about my complaints… afterall, this is a complaint thread.
Furthermore I do not personally care for the absuive tone of people that feel their opportunity to playtest this game threatened by people criticisng FFG's handling of the playest.
Again, this is not an echo chamber and bad decisions deserve the spotlight shone upone them. Noone has been rude to you so, with respect, stop being so thin skinned. If you want to pay for this product then do so, it's already there for you to hand over your cash. But pleasen don't be under any illusion how FFG have handled this.
It's also no guarantee that FFG will accept any feedback, make any changes or listen to what people say in presenting perhaps genuinely worthwhile feedback.
I think it's pretty reprehensible to not only pay for the final book (which is fine) but to pay for a beta so they can then use that money to finish the product. Not even kickstarter would get away with that.
Without Signature
It seems like there is a lot of negativity going on when we have a chance to really shape this iteration of the rules.
20.00 does seem a bit much for a prototype, and while they may not take our advice or suggestions at the very least we get a chance to look at the new rules and see what is comming. We also have a chance to try out the new rules and look for holes prior to the print version. Has anyone looked at the Errata for Deathwatch? The massive re-write on combat damage rules? How about the Black Crusade character creation snafu where rules and weapons referanced were missing. Sure, editing should have shaken that out, but this is a community of players and fans that is slowling dwindling over time. What if this book helps to bring fresh blood to our hobby? Isn't it worth our time, if we know we are going to get it anyways, to kick the tires and make some suggestions? I am proud to say that I purchased the beta copy and I am excited to get a chance to try out the new rules. I really like the 40K lines so far, I like how informative and interesting the setting is, and I want to see it succeed. In this world of Kickstarter funding, crowd sourcing, and the general direction of the hobby I think this is a good move on FF's part.
Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.
Inquisitor Huntingmoon said:
It seems like there is a lot of negativity going on when we have a chance to really shape this iteration of the rules.
20.00 does seem a bit much for a prototype, and while they may not take our advice or suggestions at the very least we get a chance to look at the new rules and see what is comming. We also have a chance to try out the new rules and look for holes prior to the print version. Has anyone looked at the Errata for Deathwatch? The massive re-write on combat damage rules? How about the Black Crusade character creation snafu where rules and weapons referanced were missing. Sure, editing should have shaken that out, but this is a community of players and fans that is slowling dwindling over time. What if this book helps to bring fresh blood to our hobby? Isn't it worth our time, if we know we are going to get it anyways, to kick the tires and make some suggestions? I am proud to say that I purchased the beta copy and I am excited to get a chance to try out the new rules. I really like the 40K lines so far, I like how informative and interesting the setting is, and I want to see it succeed. In this world of Kickstarter funding, crowd sourcing, and the general direction of the hobby I think this is a good move on FF's part.
Without Signature
Well most playtest material has little to know visual appeal (half a$$ charts and tables, no pictures, standard word documents) and are rarely (in my experience) 250+ pages. Plus it gives me a good head start on what the game will be like before paying $50 for it (since I am planning on multiple copies of the game if I like it, its a good start and worth thte $20).
It also seems to be more to my style than the last 2 40K RPGs, though I dont like the comrades rule so far.
Emperor, let Your undeniable light burn on the mishappen and twisted, so I can see them with pure sight, and purge them with righteous fire!
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