I think alot of people would want to have a hard copy on the table but also like to have a pdf for those situations where the book is in use or your just not near it. 

I have a PDF of everything for reference, plus sometimes I need two or more sections of the book open at once.

Sad that this won't be making Gen-Con. I was really looking forward to getting a copy, but if the beta makes for a more polished game (not that my sections need any polishing (/obvious bravado!)), then that's a good thing.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

This  may *still* be out at GenCon….

I think that this may be a marketing tool.  All of their 40K games have been released in the "Fall" - they all also have been available at GenCon (they enter the distribution stream sometime Sept-Nov).  If they are THIS far in the layout with the rules (sans fluff and whatnot), then they are probably days/weeks away from sending it to the printer.  They have NEVER had an open Beta for ANY of their previous games.  This may simply be a good mechanism for spreading the word and generating interest before release, especially if they are worried about soft sales at first.

Seriously - an open Beta THIS large, with potentially hundreds or thousands of participants?  Aside from the CHAOS, it would take *many* months to deal with communications and corrections, especially since it is open to ANYONE regardless of gaming or rules experience.

Cheers,

Ken

Hi,

My first response was similar to Sister Callida, the idea of the finished product being more thoroughly tested for typos and rules issues by the community that would inevitably be frustrated by these errors was quite pleasing. I can understand folks being torn about paying for the Beta pdf, then paying again for a hard book copy. I also prefer the feel/look/smell,etc of a proper book. However, you'll also be paying for the ability to actually play the game ahead of the release. If you can grab four or five decent sessions of IG spec ops action before the book is out, $20 doesnt seem like too much to me.

Well my first gut reaction was that its not really a play test as far as play tests go. Its more of a test drive. Give us $20 to see if you like the book and you can buy it full price later on. I seriously doubt any suggestions or comments made in late June, July and August will make the release date of printing.

I bought the beta, I am going to read it and hoopefully run something in it. But its a money grab.

And from what I have read so far, even if I like most of it, it could have been left (and probably should have been left) as Dark Heresy supplement.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Let me set this straight though. I am not against a money grab, I approve overall of the capitalist system. Also, I would suspect their contract with GW is facing renewel or expiring next March.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Oh you cynic you. 

Peacekeeper_b said:

Reading the Beta I just thought the same thing. But maybe that's because I'm so enamoured with Dark Heresy. ^^

 I'm more of a fan of DH psychic rules than the RT and beyond rules with focus power tests.  Rolling multiple dice with multiple chances of a phenomenon makes psychic powers that much more dangerous for the psyker.  The combat rules for BC are fine IMO.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Droma said:

Howdy,

Historically, there was WAY more fluff associated with the Inquisition and Space Marines, both for gaming (the game Inquisitor, etc) as well as in the fiction.  Heck - of the first 4 Warhammer 40K books EVER published, two dealt with the Inquisition.  There has been increasing numbers of IG fiction released in the last 7-10 years, though thanks to Gaunt's Ghosts, Last Chancers, etc.

You could argue that a better choice would be releasing Only War as a supp for Deathwatch, but it would have to be a *large* supp due to the focus of the super-human Space Marines in the core DW rules.  An IG supp for Dark Heresy would work, as it would flesh-out an existing career path and add more options.  However, if you are going to approach an IG book as a resource for mass combat, vehicles galore, intensive military roleplaying, etc, then spinning it off as a separate core game is the logical step.  I would argue that it may not be the smartest step…

The IG path in DH is valuable in-game and in the fluff.  A support book adding more flavour and options would be a no-brainer.  An independent IG guard is problematic.  Most military-based roleplaying games fail or under-perform in the market.  The military genre and structure is rigid, does not encourage diverse responses and actions, does not generally encourage wanton violence (like most rpgs) and does not support the acquisition of goods and "treasure".  Deathwatch bucks this trend as you are role-playing a SUPER-HUMAN DEATH MACHINE, and many players will forgive rigid codes and behaviour expectations.  Even THEN, many Deathwatch games sputter and die due to the rigid structure. 

Left to their own devices, players want to kill who they want, go where they want, and steal what they want. :)

Cheers,

Ken

For all of you that seem against the idea of the pdf, would it be to cost prohibitive to print it out? 

Personally, I would have liked a printed version, but I'm willing to deal with what is offered. 

As an aside, just getting into it, I was a bit disappointed at seeing no listing for either the Valhallans or the Tanith First and Only.  Upon further reading, I saw that there is a system for creating regiments.  Now I just have to pry some folk away from Pathfinder.

Armand23 said:

Howdy!

It depends on your printer.  I really recommend the Canon i960 - a reliable printer with CHEAP after-market ink!  Printing a 256-page book runs about $0.50 in ink, $1.00 in paper, and about $2.00 to have it bound at the local copy centre.  DriveThruRPG has been my new favourite store! :)

No Valhallans in the core book?  I guess we know who will be in the first supplement… :)

Cheers,

Ken

kwinland said:

I'm not sure why you want to bring "history" into the matter at all. Most of the GOOD Inquisition, space marine, and IG books have been released in the last 7-10 years. Not that it even matters. The game is being released now. That means the only thing that matters is how much IG fluff they have to draw on as well as how many IG fans there are.

kwinland said:

Seeing as DW is a space marine RPG that would be a pretty terrible argument. You're correct in that it could have been a supplement for DH. In fact they could still make that supplement if they chose to however, traditionally new source books haven't concentrated on single classes and have either provided new career paths or provided material that was applicable to many/all. So a book on just the guardsmen career path would actually be a rather odd book to add the to the line.

kwinland said:

Most military role play games aren't set into a crazy alternate future setting. There are a lot more roleplaying opportunities in an IG game than traditional military roleplay. DW suffers from the problem of people not knowing how to roleplay space marines and the fact that you're so uber that stuff either kills you or it's a joke. Only war is DH power levels so doesn't suffer from those issues.

To be honest it really doesn't matter whether you or I think they should have made a separate core game for the IG. They have made one so the only questions are is it good and will you play it? Heck you could very easily just use this combat and character creation system in a DH game. Nothing is stopping you from roleplaying that you're a bunch of Inquistion storm troopers or just a very militant Inquisitors warband. You could even keep the same career paths from DH and just assign appropriate aptitudes and you'd be good to go.

Howdy!

The reason for my "historical" reference is that MOST of the fluff over the last 20+ years for 40K has traditionally been the Inquisition and Space Marines, which is where the interest in the fan base lies.  More IG novels certainly has raised interest in the Guard, but nothing will beat Marines… :)

DW, in addition to being a game about Marines, also deals with vehicles and mass combat - an IG supp for this would be logical, but would indeed be really large to cover "mundane" humans and the IG org - a separate book/game would be a better choice instead of that route.  A number of career paths for DH  have seen books fleshing them out (Judges, Sororitas, Priests, upcoming Mechanicus, etc) in addition to adding new material - an DH IG book would have fit the mold.

The unfamiliarity of aspects of Marine life and combat is a big draw - it is a "fresh" take on the military theme.  I would argue that being a GOD on the battlefield doesn't hurt, either.  :)

Aside from the futurism and tech, being a mortal Guardsmen is a LOT like playing in a traditional military RPG - you want to survive, go home, get promoted, etc.  Shiney toys and weird enemies will only keep your interest for so long.  Read the IG fluff - they are for the most part tales of terror and survival, out-gunned and often with dim prospects.  Not the most thrilling of RPG premises…. :)

This is the Internet, and opinions are like a$$**** - everyone has got one.  :)

Discussing publication and support material is certainly interesting and relevant, if only for ideas and feedback.  I can see some interest in playing Guardsmen, but having run and played in a number of military RPGs (modern, historical, and SF) over the last 30 years, they tend to flop.  I have NO interest in an IG core book - I can easily use Guard career paths from DH or alternates from RT to offer players IG flavour in a more interesting setting.

Cheers,

Ken