Simsum said:

No, it doesn't. A core rulebook would severly restrict the evolvement of the line. That approach nearly destroyed Hero Systems and pretty much destroyed the World of Darkness. For good reason.

Dok Martin said:

Indeed it worked so well for WW they're now releasing new editions of the Old World of Darkness lines…

Seriously, imagine what would have happened if FFG had chosen this path. We would have a single set of rules : DH's, set in stone. That would make for a pretty arid book and people would still be complaining they have to purchase at least two books to have a complete game.

My wish for OW? I wish for a setting that does justice to the awesomeness that is the IG. I want grim epic, heroism and betrayal and tragedy. And tanks.

Dulahan said:

The problem is not with the Careers or Specialty system, but the attempt to get more variety than there should be. The truth is that there shouldn't be a "heavy weapons" specialty, or a "sergeant" specialty or a "trooper" specialty (or whatever). In the Imperial Guard there should be 1 career: Imperial Guardsman. The Heavy Weapons trooper just happens to be the Imperial Guardsman with a bigger gun. Often specialist weapons would be given to better shots and the like, but that is more a factor of experience (some xp spent on improving BS) or natural talent (rolled above average on starting BS) than "super special awesome heavy weapon trooper abilities!" The sergeant is just a particularly experienced Imperial Guardsman (built with a larger amount of XP), with some leadership skills either gained from training, force of personality or built up from experience. The same applies to Space Marines, where an assault marine is not a marine with uber assault abilities, he is just a Marine with a bolt pistol, chainsword and jump pack.

"Realistically" there should be a general Imperial Guard advance table that almost all characters choose from. There should be some way to isolate regimental differences, but other than that most characters "roles" should be determined purely by what they happen to be equipped with and what they spend their experience on. There should be some advanced specialties, for the true specalists, like medics, specialist snipers and the like (possibly officers as well), Only truely different units should deviate from this, such as the Stormtroopers and Roughriders, who should have completely separate advance schemes from everyone else. Also, these different units shouldn't be mixed in a PC party. You don't have a random stormtrooper in a squad of Cadians (or visa versa). Players should all be Cadians, or all be Stormtroopers, or all be Rough Riders etc.

But then I am not terribly convinced this is a terribly great idea for a game anyway. Military roleplaying games tend to be much more limiting in their subject matter, and most of a war film's drama comes not so much from the events, but from character moments which means unless you go real hard core for the roleplay element (rather than the investigate, intrigue and hitting things present in most games) I just feel like Only War is going to get very stale quite quickly (Only Combat All the Time!) or very cliched. It was much more justifiable to have a variety of activities for the players to do in the other lines. Even Space Marines (particularly in the much looser Deathwatch) can do a form of investigation, diplomacy and intrigue. All these things are well above the pay grade of an Imperial Guardsman. His fun fun duties are: When there is an enemy around, shoot them. In the long periods when there isn't, you are either looking for the enemy (sentry duty), digging (trenches), or moving shit about. Occasionally you will get free time. During that time you will probably get sozzled, or spend your timne catching up on sleep. Maybe you get more extended leave and you get to do a bit more, but that isn't exactly thrilling in a game.

I don't entirely agree with the 'nothing to do' and 'can't do investigation' and stuff…/

Look at the Gaunt's Ghost novels.  There are a few where more independent things gets assigned.  Like investigating the messed up manor in the one.  Or the ones set in a Hive City under siege.  Or the behind the lines resistance stuff.

Or the Cain novels, sure Cain does a lot of the stuff, but some soldiers inevitably get drug along and play a valuable role.  What's this about some strange happenings?  Hmm, maybe we should check it out…

There's certainly ways, take a bit of creativity from the GM, but even in the IG units get shuffled to garrison duty or some rec time behind the lines where weird stuff can happen.

Well, personally I would argue that Gaunt's Ghosts isn't really 40k. It is standard military sci-fi and/or Sharpe with a 40k sheen. While the broad brush things are pretty 40k, many, if not most, of the details are wrong. Doesn't stop them being enjoyable books.

Cain: He is a commissar, and the focus of the books. The Imperial Guardsmen with him often end up dead at the end. They are not good role models for a player character group.

The problem with mysteries while on leave is that if it is anything remotely hinky (ie warp/xenos related) the Imperial Guard will have no idea what they are dealing with. If they are lucky their lack of knowledge means they reach a dead end and achieve exactly diddly squat. If they are unlucky they find something and end up dead or a brood brother of a Genestealer cult. If they somehow end up surviving they then face either "Ok, well bugger off, this is our job. Don't ask anymore questions" or "Please schedule an appointment with your local Commissar for the relocation of the contents of your skull." This kind of stuff is totally above a Guardsman's pay grade. Heck, its above his regimental commander's pay grade.

If it is an utterly mundane mystery (eg Guardsman stabbed in an alley during a brawl, or just to nick his stuff) then ok, maybe, but even then that really falls under "That's a job for somebody else." Not the kind of thing that is going to stop a player character group, but still not really the life of an Imperial Guardsman.

Lightbringer said:

within the cannon you do have trucks and the like, they are just (typically) kept from the frontline and relegated to the logistical areas of the front. In Gaunt's Ghosts book 5 or 6 on the shrine world Heridor[sp] the ghosts and others are moved up a road from the city to the shrine in some… 6 wheeled i think… open topped trucks when danger arises suddenly.

also, in book two the ghosts (some riding as motorcycle outriders) are on super hauler trucks as they hold off a suspected ambush on their supply lines.  

Also, Commisariat sedans throughout. Not many other IG books ever focus on anything that isn't an assault in a crusade frontline or a defence of some badass fortress or line in the sand.

 With all due respect, boring and lame as most guard deployments are, I believe that we are getting to play the interesting guardsman.  

We get to be the IG that recieve the unwelcome 'reward' for being good at their jobs and eventually get to know things, ala veterans or elites in the TT.

We get to be the infiltraitors, the diplomatic detail, the prisoner escort, the advance recon, the guys who set up an ambush for that other regiment that friendly fired us (commisar be dammed).  

There are uncounted trillions of unwashed guardsman, and it is hardly unreasonable to assume that we might get the chance to be the .0001% that get 'lucky' (aka fate points)

"All right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed? Another glorious day in the Guard! A day in the Imperial Guard is like a day on the farm. Every meal's a banquet! Every paycheck a fortune! Every formation a parade! I LOVE the Guard! "

Simsum said:

You're pulling my tags, Squats? Really?

Squats where the goofiest mess to come out of early 40k and we'll never see them in the cannon again, the GW powers that be refuse to talk about them anymore.  The only thing they've said about them since the cancelled them like the youngest daughter on "Family Matters" is that they where eaten by a hive fleet… all of them.

The only BL novel that mentions them is listed as Apocrypha on their site and the novel it self (the Inquisition War trilogy) opens with a disclaimer from the Inquisition itself on the account being suspect.

We're more likely to see Space Marines with shuriken catapults again before we see squats sanctioned by GW.

Regarding Squats…

Um… there's hints they're coming back.  They're called the Demiurg.  and they're showing up in a lot of the more recent stories.  Notably "Purging of Kadillus" had a scene of Orks fighting some at the beginning.  So be afraid, be very afraid.  It's seeming likely they figured out the less silly way to have them.

EDIT:  and regarding Gaunts Ghosts…

Um…  (yes, again!).  They're more 40k now than almost anything else.  They're the BIG thing aside Space Marines.  Abnett's version of the Universe has helped flesh it out and make it a lot more popular, and make a lot more sense.  To say it isn't really 40k is like saying Space Marines aren't.  Especially on a board devoted to 40k RPGs that draw a lot from them.  I'd wager that even in the very likely event the Tanith First and Only don't show up in the game, elements of the Ghosts books will be drawn on HEAVILY for the way the Guard is portrayed.   Just as Eisenhorn and Ravenor were for Dark Heresy.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing is MORE 40k than the Abnettverse, and GW obviously agrees since things are changed toward those things.

I would like to see:

1. Rules for making your own Regiments

2. Vehicle rules and stats for the most basic IG vehicles at the very least, I've had to stat Chimaeras and Valkyries myself in the past ,based off other existing vehicles (Rhino and Valkyrie Sky-talon respectively), and not sure if I did them any justice

3. Siege of Vraks / Eye of Terror's Lost and the Damned-styled Renegade/Traitor Guard regiments as one of the 3 main enemies of the line, allowing some awesome trench, tank and city-fight warfare missions. Thinking Plague Ogryns and Zombies, Chaos Space Marines commanding the forces, Chaos hounds or Flesh Hounds being herded at the Loyalist lines etc.

4. A proper Ork Waaagh! as the main or secondary enemy. Rogue Trader has a fair amount of Orks in it, but this is mostly Freebooters / Pirates. From memory, the Orks are a minor inclusion in the Core Book, included a bit more in Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss and Battlefleet Koronus (although no more than anyone else in the latter 2), and are the focus of 1 adventure book, but by comparison I can only think of 1 Rogue Trader book that doesn't have a considerable amount of Eldar (Into the Storm). Only War would be a great place to put more focus on the Orks, including stats for most Ork units, vehicles and aircraft.

5. As others have said numerous times, Squad abilities, tailored more to making the players seem more like an actual squad working together, instead of the Deathwatch-styled abilties which were mostly "I spend Cohesion, everyone does something awesome this round". More ongoing abilities like perhaps resistance to Fear or Pinning if the players are at a designated point that the squad's leader chose to make their stand, or benefits to Suppression Fire while a team-mate is advancing (ie. Cover Fire).

6. A good, solid system for Mass Combat other than cinematic-styled. What I mean is something similar to what was included in Battlefleet Koronus, but perhaps with a greater difference between rules for Infantry, Armoured, Artillery and Air groups.

7. Also, combat rules for fighting Hordes or enemy Squads that aren't as deadly as the Deathwatch and Black Crusade ones. If enemy Squads are used, perhaps they could also have limited access to Squad abilities (I am planning on having my Deathwatch players fight a Chaos Space Marine squad with Cohesion Points and Squad Modes of their own, and if I run my planned all-Ork RT game I was going to have the final adventure against a Deathwatch Kill-team, so something like this would be awesome for Only War)

Kerrahn, you are my Battle Brother in wishes for Only War.  :D  Everything you said I wholeheartedly agree with.

Especially Renegade Humans and Orks for the main enemies.  Probably Nids as the third and we've covered all three things a Guardsman is most likely to fight.

Dulahan said:

I personally disagree. Ok, GW certainly fully supports the books and their presence in the setting, but they just don't do the details quite right (I tend to find that Dan Abnett's non-military stuff fits better). Yes, many of the extremes of 40k are overblown, and many things should be taken to be extremes, or just stylistic representations of what the things should "realistically" be like. However, Abnett goes to far the other way with Gaunt's Ghosts. Things are too "normal". Guardsmen are too independent minded, too technically minded, too… modern. Yes, there is variation in the Guard, but there are certain things that should remain fairly universal. Technology is a mystery to most citizens of the Imperium. Not so Abnett's guardsmen. They are far too aware of Chaos (yes, Guardsmen fight Chaos heretics… but they know of them as being Heretics, or rebels, or something. They don't usually know that they are worshippers of Chaos).

Commissars (most specifically Gaunt himself) are not done correctly. Yes, the image of the Commissar who shoots his men left right and centre is a bit overblown, but Gaunt is far too reasonable. The only time he ever behaves like a proper commissar is when he shoots the officer for "wasting Imperial resources" when he shells Gaunt's own men. Yes, a Commissar shouldn't "realistically" shoot everyone for every minor infraction, and he is concerned for the men's morale, but that is because it impacts their ability to fight for their Emperor. Commissars should be fanatics. Not slavering mad men, but usually quite vocal about Duty to the Emperor (Commissars are meant to oversee their charges' spiritual health), and even the "quiet" ones are "quietly" fanatical.

Gaunt also doesn't act like a Regimental Commander. He is far too hands on. Partly that comes from 1) the clash between his role as a Commissar and a Senior Officer and 2) the complete and utter nonsense the books make of any proper military structure (but then that isn't really a problem with his portrayal of 40k). Abnett clearly wanted to write the more intimate stories kind of "company level" stories (similar to most of the Sharpe series) provide, following specific characters in detail, but didn't want to deal with the fact that in 40k a company commander has next to no freedom of action. So he makes the main character a regimental commander… but then continues to write "company level" fiction. The way that Gaunt commands that regiment should just lead to disaster (basically having platoons running around on their own volition, without any central direction, with the senior officer being hard, if not impossible to find and contact). Ok, sometimes it is better than that in some books, but the fact it seems to work every time is a bit irritating to me.

Catachans, Sentinels and Super Heavy Vehicle rules :)

 Hoping for quite a few things.

Custom regiment generator/rules, like in Rites of Battle.

Psyker rules that I feel arsed to read (I blame myself for this, but I never allow psykers in my groups because the rules are too complex for me.)

Lots of fun stuff for the Enginseer.

Good vehicle rules.

New vehicles (please, give us an APC that isn't the Chimera.)

Interesting enemies (the guard fight traitors, Orks, Tyranids, and Tau; wha are we seeing that's new?)

An interesting sector.

More Specialties down the line.

More human diversity.

No, I don't mean Not-Fantasy or contemporary ethnicity/race proxies.

I want to see more Abhumans and Mutants. More minor, abeit unique variations that prop up from the huge genetic diversity and evolution of the species.

New vehicles. I really want to see cars, trucks and new Leman Russ variants. Ones that are closer to a steampunk or WWI level, others closer to a late 20th century design (which, on tabletop isn't hard to do for conversions).

Generally, I just want more diversity.