I would suggest you stick to first edition, which seems to correspond more to your taste, rather than try to transform D2 into D1.

They are two different beasts, and as for me, I would not like D2 to become the "booty hunt" and  4 hours session game that D1 is - not speaking of the heavy ruleset.

D2 is fast, with simple rules. Heroes progress more slowly, get less goodies, so they have to make the best with what they have. That is what I like (but my playing background is wargaming rather than rpging).

That makes sense. I'm not a war gamer. But the first edition isn't just all about the fighting. There is a lot of stategy involved. It kind of reminds me of battle chess. Move and counter move. Try and outwit your opponent. Build your strength, lay your plans, then go in for the kill. If you dare. This new one just doesn't have that kind of feel to it. I don't want to sit around trying to fetch and carry while not being able to find anything to make my guys stronger. Plus no goodies. Too boring for my tastes.

Plus, I gotta say this; what's the incentive to even play this game without the treasure cards? You don't win anything, you don't find anything, you don't get piles of gold. You can't even buy anything cool. What are you playing for? The satisfaction of a job well done? That's lame.

nathrotep said:

Robin said:

Damn, you mean all the chess games I've played over the years were a complete waste of time because I didn't get any cardboard loot?  Bummer! 

 Robin, I just want to say that I totally agree with you. I think that the slower, incremental buildup of gear in Descent 2nd Edition makes each upgrade seem all the more "precious" and "special". It's all relative. Each to their own. But count me among those who think the new edition is working just fine, thank you. I'm pretty sure that new equipment "shop cards" will be added to the mix with each new expansion as well. 

nathrotep said:

What's the incentive to play ANY board game by that logic?  It's all cardboard and plastic at the end of the day.

nathrotep said:

You win (or lose) the scenario.  You find lots of potions and gold in the search cards (you just don't have cardboard tokens for them.)  You can buy all the gear you want in between quests with the gold you have found previously, it just isn't as much gold as 1E had you rolling around in.

You say you aren't a wargamer, but you can't be much of an RPGer either, if the constant influx of new "loot cards" and cardboard money tokens is this important to you.  Most RPGs don't have any physical components beyond dice and a pencil (and minis and map tiles for some of the more recent game lines, but D2E has those in spades anyway.)  Money and XP being tracked on paper shouldn't be too much of a system shock for someone with a background in RPGs.

At any rate, I don't think this discussion is going to get much further in terms of constructive dialogue.  There've been a few solid suggestions for how to up the phat lewts in 2E in past posts.  If none of those work for you, then I would humbly agree with previous posters who have suggested D2E is not the game for you.

It's not about the cardboard tokens at all. It's about upgrading your characters. Even in D&D you find or buy stuff that you upgrade your characters with. My main point after receiving the suggestions was just to point out that the new game doesn't give anything exciting to upgrade with. In chess, it's a battle of wits that you play with strategy. People who play chess have to think several moves ahead to out match their opponent. Winning at chess is it's own reward. But we're talking about a game that has art work involved, with lots of things going on, a lot of it mixed with RPG elements. I suppose you could say that playing it just for the challenge is good enough. But when you've played the first edition, it pales in comparison. I think I may have figured out a way to mix the two in any event; change the search function to treasure chests and up the OL's creatures and cards with the cards that do that from the first edition campaign. I highly recommend that those of you who haven't played the first edition try it. You'll immediately see the difference. I hope that in the future the expansions will fix this problem with the second edition. For now I'm sticking to the first edition. And, of course, Mansion of Madness, Arkham Horror, and Talisman. All of these games are great and offer the type of game play that I'm describing. All of them allow you to upgrade and get cool loot as you play. Enough said.

I actually understand and agree with you, to a point.  The search deck has one, ONE card in it that can cause you to find new, useful equipment.  Players like new equipment, just like they dig new powers too.  It's perfectly possible to play for many hours and not get anything beyond your starting gear (certainly in a four player game where money is spread thin).  Is this really what people want from a dungeon crawl game?  Especially when you compare that to the first edition that had gear thrown at you constantly.  I think it's gone slightly too far the other way now.

Hell, you can't even keep potions from one quest to the other…  Wow…

Some people like Monty Haul dungeon crawls, some don't. Sounds like D1E was the former -- although I haven't played it -- and they tried a different tack with D2E. Personally I think most games put too much emphasis on gear & not enough on skills. If you take away Conan's +9 Sword of Compensation, does he go from hero to zero?

To be honest however, finding potions (majority of Search cards) -- and buying items -- does seem backwards to me. Looting trash (level 1) gear -- shield, armor, etc. -- during the run would make more sense to me than finding an undamaged potion bottle … and then drinking from the damn thing without having it identified by the town alchemist?! I can kind of understand why they did it from a design / playability standpoint, but I think I'd have made different decisions.

Relics are the rare exception of gear acquired during Encounters, aside from the occasional chest, which does seem right to me.

Triu said:

What doesnt seem right though is you are assumed to sell all potions etc when you return to town at the end of a quest…  Why is that?

Sausageman said:

Because they're like milk, they go bad if you don't keep 'em in the fridge. Besides, with all these monsters roaming his lands, Baron Greigory is afraid of terrorists, so he does like all flight companies do: he confiscates every bottled liquid that enters his town.

For those who didn't get it, this game is supposed to be an evolution from Descent 1, and evolution, a.k.a growing up, is supposed to go this way:

Kiddie who likes cool stuff => Nerd who likes to think

So: evolve or stay with Descent 1.

Sheldon Cooper

I'm in blissfull ignorance.

Having not played DE1 I don't know what I'm missing and enjoy DE2 purely for what is there - rather than bemoaning what isn't there.

The search tokens serve as the principle loot gathering mechanic in DE2 - and that is adequate enough for me, for now.

Macnme said:

Actually, the first edition still had all the thinking you are mentioning, plus better dungeons. The treasure cards where split into 3 decks; bronze, silver, and gold. Each dungeon had a starting point which would have only bronze treasure chests (or 1 chest), then a silver level, etc. The chests were further randomized in that you had to draw them out of a face down pile of chits while setting up the game. On the back of the chit it would tell you what you got to draw when you landed on it. Sometimes it wasn't treasure but something else. In the first edition, you start out weak, and the monsters are stronger than you; you almost have to get the chests if you want to survive each level. Each level got progressively harder than the last. And it was a further challenge to outwit the OL by figuring ways to get to the treasure chests around or through the monsters, obstacles, etc. The first edition had both plenty of strategy and thought, plus the fact that you had to get to the treasure to get equipment. You could, (and sometimes had to), try and solve the objective without the treasure. The treasure decks were also random, so a lot of times, you'd get stuff that you couldn't even use! So for those of you who haven't tried it, please take the time. It's really a lot of fun, and very challenging. I think of the second edition in this way: remember how great 'Dragon Age: Origins' was? Then you got all excited when you heard about 'Dragon Age: Awakenings'. But 'Awakenings' was dumbed down and not as fun, right? That's how I felt about this game when I went to play it at the demonstration. I'm not saying that it's not a fun game; I'm saying that it was a disappointment when compared to how much fun I have playing the first one. Having no treasure cards not only takes away the possibility of loot, but also a really fun part of the over-all experience which I feel is a necessary component.