Niranth said:

Niranth said:

Hm. I'm feeling a bit stupid, because I dont quite get it :P. 

I mean, if you get one point per win, there are three possible outcomes. 1-1, 2-0, 0-2. In either case a draw (when you and your opponent win one each) isnt valued the same as a loss (when you loose both, getting 0 points). 

Please explain if possible? Not trolling here, I just dont understand. 

I have created a Tourney guide derived from the Android: Netrunner guide. It allows for a total of 3 Match points per round.

Vaapad said:

The Android: Netrunner rules do say that sleeves are necessary for regional and national events, but it doesn't mention anything about opaque sleeves.

You could run the the same way Decipher ran their tournaments:

Players are split into two random groups before round 1 is paired and each group is assigned a side of the force.

Players are paired up.

Round 1: player plays one side of the force

Sides are ordered top to bottom winners to losers (taking into account secondary scores - see below), and paired off with winners playing winners from the opposite group.

Round 2: player plays the opposite side than the one he played in Round 1.

Everyone is ranked best to worst scores (taking into account secondary scores - see below) and split into two groups (1 goes to G1, 2 goes to group 2, 3 goes to group 1, etc) and one is randomly assigned a side of the force.

Round 3: player plays one side

Sides are ordered top to bottom winners to losers, and paired off with winners playing winners from the opposite group.

Round 4: player plays the opposite than the one he played in round 3.

rinse and repeat for however many even number of rounds you need based on ratio of player turnout to Swiss pairing

Because this is a very fast game rounds could be 30 min, where 1 game played.

Players get 2pts for a Full Win, 1 for a Timed Win, 0 for a loss. Additionally the players get a secondary score based on the number of cards left in the winning players command deck. Winner adds that number to their secondary score, the loser subtracts that number. This way the most efficient winners rise to the top of the standings.

Cut to top whatever and play turns into match play where both players will play1 game with both sides of the force. Winner of the match is the player with the most wins, or in the case of a tie (1-1) the player with the higher secondary score.

The only drawback to the secondary score the way it would be applied to this game is that there is no max objective limit so command decks could vary in size which could be dealt with by simply saying if the winning player is playing more than 10 objectives subtract X from the command deck score where X=(Total # of objectives - 10)x5.

It seems complex but it is actually quite simple once you get used to it.

Shikaku said:

I thought about this as well; it is easy for me because I have been doing it for a while. After some thought, though, I decided I would not recommend it, but something similar.

This is what I am suggesting (and will try out this weekend):

• Swiss Format

• 65 minute rounds (the TO may adjust this time by +/- 10 minutes at his or her discretion before

the tournament begins)

• Match play consisting of two games

Match Structure

A match consists of two games. Players alternate playing the Dark and Light Sides of the Force during a

match. For the first game of a match, the player with the most Force points will decide which side of the

Force they will play first. For the first match of the tournament, sides will be determined randomly by the

TO.

After drawing his or her starting hand, the DS player must decide first whether to take his or her mulligan,

followed by the LS player.

Winning Matches

Each round consists of one match, and the winner of the match is the player who acquired the most match

points during the round.

The winner of a game scores 1 match point. If a player wins both the DS and LS games, they score an

additional match point, for a maximum of 3 match points per match.

At the conclusion of the match each player totals up the match points he or she scored in both games plus

any bonuses, and the player with the highest total wins the match. In the event both players win one

game, an additional match point is awarded the player with the highest Force point total for the match. If

the players also have the same number of Force points for the match, the game is a draw and neither

player is awarded an additional match point.

Force points

Players are awarded Force points based on the results of each game:

• DS players score Force points equal to the number on the Death Star dial

• LS players will score points equal to the number of DS objectives destroyed multiplied by 4

• LS players score additional Force points equal to 3 minus the number of LS objectives destroyed

(for a minimum of 0)

Remember that you still gain Force and match points each round, even if you lose the match.

Going to Time

Players play both games during each match. The second game is not started until the first game is

completed.

If time is called and neither player has achieved victory in the current game, then play continues until

both players have completed one turn. If victory has still not been achieved after the final turn, players

calculate their Force points for that game. The player with the highest total wins the game.

A player cannot be awarded a match point for the second game unless each player has completed two

turns.

Vaapad said:

Sleeves don't have to be opaque or solid any longer.  New tournament rules for agot allow for clear or even art sleeves.  Some shops still have "house rules"  that require opaque solid sleeves, but not FFG.

MasterJediAdam said:

Comments to this (my previous post on points was mainly based in these criteria);

The first problem seems to be that the DS can get "odd" points and the LS cannot. Perhaps this can be solved by giving the ds 1 point per 2 steps on the dsdial, which means that he has to survive until at least turn 2 to get one point, and gets a maximum of six points if the dsdial reaches 12. 

The light side then would get two points per objective destroyed, netting them six points on a win, just like the DS. 

I'm not sure why you would include alternate means, such as the "the light side gets three points, minus one for each objective destroyed by the ds player". First off such a rule would invalidate certain ds playstyles (Sith force control springs to mind) and it would also create problems with the maximum points pool for the sides and so on. The DS already has incentives to attack objectives, seeing as they gain points from the dsdial, which destroying objectives advances. Also, the faster that dial advances, the less time the LS player will have to destroy objectives and get points. 

It seems most reasonable to give each side equal opportunity to get the same amount of points. It should be relatively rare to see a side get no points at all, even if the Ds player gets to 12 the ls player will have destroyed an objective or two and even if the LS player wins by destroying his three obj the ds player will have points from the dsdial having advanced during the game.

@MasterJediAdam: I'm really curious about your reasoning around the points in relation to the above. I'm looking to run a tournament myself so finding a decent points system would be great :)

flightmaster101 said:

Yep, that's right -- I got mixed up.

As AshesFall, We too have found some problems with the "Force Point" reasoning.

The problem stems mainly from Heart of the Empire and Trench Run - in both cases, the used method for counting the Force Points effectivelly punishes the Light Side player for going after these objectives.

I would strongly argue with giving a set number of "Force Points" to the winner of match, while also giving some to the losing player according to the proposed criteria (with what AshesFall presents as a "better" version of the original document). Meaning it would go like this:

Winning player gets 6 Force points.
If the losing player is DS,  he gets 1 Force point for each 2 turns of DS dial.
If the losing player is LS, he gets 2 Force points for each objective destroyed.

Maximum number of Force points awarded per match is 6 (meaning DS won't get extra points if DS ended on 15 for example).

This is not really a tremendous improvement (I am not sure it is an improvement after all), but I see strong argument for giving the winner a set number of points due to cards mentioned.

I am anxiously waiting for any ideas, since we have to solve that issue before a tournament we are running this saturday.

I like the discussion so far… and think that the various strategies that are played out in various places will help FFG craft a solid OP system… personally, I think every system will have flaws, so we need to realize that and move on- certain people (read: a few) will use the OP rules (whatever they may be) to cater to some form of shady play (i.e. stalling to get a "force point" or something).  Each system proposed so far has had a lot of thought to go into it…  I say run with what each of you have and report back with your findings…

jeeps said:

Yeah, I concur. I think this weekend I will spend some time crunching out the results in different ways, and possibly also again on Tuesday. 

AshesFall said:

An easy fix to concerns about the reward for going after Heart of the Empire and the DS dial is to give the light side player a score of 12 if he wins the match, 4*dark side objectives captured for a draw or loss.  It does make failing Trench Run or faling to destroying the Heart of the Empire less rewarding, but it should be a gamble to go after either.  Win big or lose big.

As to keeping LS and DS scores similar, why?  Each player has a chance to play both sides and the match should be determined by the outcome in both games.

I am also in favor of keeping the choice of deck to play first random rather than based on performance.

edit: Clarifacation and more.