I have been debating on going with a 2 fire spray build. At the time I thought this ship had a rear facing fire arch or is that for kine placement only? 

Gr8 discussion here!

i like the A-Wings alot, the threat of them with missiles is not to be ignored, i have found the trick with them is to keep them at med-long range to reduce the damage they take. I am dreaming of playing 3 in the same squad just for fun.

There are some really nice upgrades in Wave 2: stealth device, push the limit, expose, engine upgrade and veteran insticts will all see lots of play.

I think a few competitive rebel builds may opt for the Outer Rim Smuggler as an anchor ship, probably with minimal upgrades (maybe Gunner 5) to operate as a beefier Y-Wing type ship to plug away with its 360 degree firing arc.

AncientAngel said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the rear arc is for mine and sismic charge

I have had little luck with playing Stealth Devices, general I lose them the first or second time said ship, ussually Biggs, get shot at.  I think they have the possibility to be a great upgrade, but for 3 points you may find that for as easy as they are lost, they won't be be played to heavily.  A bonus shield, although I have yet to play with this card, may be a better upgrade despite the cost.  Just think of a Tie with a shield.

What is crazy about the green arrows for the Interceptor and A-wing is the fact that the entire turn 2 row is green (may be mistaken on the Interceptor since I don't own one yet).  Accept for certain senerios, there is no reason for an Interceptor or A-wing to stay stressed.  This is nice because it gives you a ship that can stay in the fight easier.  My biggest gaming play concern a player should have is the 2 hull that the A-wing has.  The first crit card an A-wing has to take can easily be its last.  The fact that an A-wing only has 2 attack really only makes it a slightly faster tie fight that should be able to survive one more hit.

The best use for the Firespray that I can fanthom is to use it as a deadicated missile boat.  Take Trelix (secondary weapon reroll) with the Slave 1 upgrade then load it with a proton torpedio, cluster missile, and seimic charge.  Use the torpedio the first time you can target lock, then the the missile in the proceding turn (assuming you can get your movements right without losing your action in a colission).  The first turn you can clear the parking lot you drop the charge as you move past your opponent's ships.  From there out you just need to keep the enemy in a fire arc and keep the main guns pounding away at them.

The one new card that I have problems with it the Proximity Mine.  The biggest issue I have with this is that it requires an action to put it in play.  This generally means that your oppenent is going to have time to avoid it or just got really unlucky in the movement selection.  Most of the time they will just be able to avoid it.  Since the most that can be in play, at this time, will be 2, I don't think proximity mines will have any decent play value until the Tie Bomber comes out.  At that point it may be possible to take enough mines that you can choke the board with them.  MInes will be something to revisit when the Tie Bomber is released.

I think a new combo to consider in the expansion will be Lando, Gaven, and Dutch.  With the right upgrade cards and play style it should be possible for each ship to get 2 actions a turn.

CPTMcMurphy said:

I totally disagree with the Firespray, you should be using it for the heavy laser or ion cannons most of the time, leave the missiles to the TIEadvs. I can tell you that it is simply horrid as a ship, and unlikely to be something you will want to bring to a tournament, due to multiple problems plaguing it. As for the proximity mine, you could try ramming your firespray in straightaway, then have someone else come in and squad leader it to drop the mine, after you have "aimed" the mine and know for sure who will hit it etc. Either way, you really do not want to load it up with multiple missiles/torps, because you will have very little chances at firing them off before you die. If you already think it is hard to do that on the Ywing, it is even harder on the Firespray.

come wave 2, PTL will be the most played upgrade I guess, and this will also mean that we will see less of wave 1 stuff like squad leader and expert handling for instance.  Marksmanship has a little bit more reason to be played now, and so does maaaaaaaaarek, but otherwise PTL and maybe elusiveness should be the most played upgrade. we might see less swarm tactic chaining as well, as less ships are fielded and the pilot skill points are generally increasing across the board. Old rebel builds like 4 Xwings etc will still see some play even with the enw ships, abeit with some minor tweaks to incoporate new wave 2 stuff, but for the imperial side, the widespread spamming of stealth device would most likely mean the old 7-8 TIE/ln swarm will not be seeing much play anymore. instead we would be seeing a lot more TIE/in, with the numbers generally around 4-6 ships for any solid imperial build. The game will be a lot faster and merciless too, with the general improvement in the quality of the attacks. one bad range 1 exchange with all blanks on your evade rolls would pretty much guarantee your ship is dead, unless its hp is comparable to a Ywing, and with lesser ships being fielded on both sides, that would be very painful.

Predictions about the assault missiles missed the mark entirely. i tried against my 8 TIE swarm throwing 4 assault missiles at it with 4 TIEadv (yes, points are unbalanced, i know, it was for testing), and it dodged 2, ate 2 assault missile with each missile getting about 4-5 ships each in total, with about 3 ships that took both assault missiles. Then afterwards the 4 TIEadv just straight up and got chewed apart by the 8 TIEs, of which at the end of the game about 3 were left, but still it proves the point that the assault missile isn't as damaging to the swarm as claimed. You could really easily eat 1 to all 8 ships and treat it as if the missile didn't even existed, although 2 is rather painful, but nowhere near fatal. not even close.

closing note: i feel PTL should cost 4 points and sexpose should cost 3 points

The rear firing arc of the Firespray is for the primary weapon only. So it can shoot out of its auxiliary firing arc with its primary weapon, but not secondary weapons.

That's another thing to keep in mind with the YT, if you use a secondary weapon with it, that can only be used out of its firing arc, not at 360 like its primary weapon.

Deploying mines/charges happens by placing a straight 1 movement template behind the Firespray and setting the mine at the end of the template. I've actually deployed them twice, the first time I ran into it myself on the same turn, and the second time he avoided it entirely. Ziggy did the Squad leader trick against me and it worked to destroy my Academy TIE on the next turn, as he dropped it right on him.

And the 2 Turn is green for both the Awing and Interceptor. Actually all 2 maneuvers are green for both, as are 3 straight and 4 straight. The Awing can go 5 straight as a green maneuver as well.

Oh, and beware of Outer Rim Smugglers with the Engine Upgrade. If it moves 4 and boosts, it will have covered literally half of the board with its movement. And with the large base and moving first, it will clog up the lanes between asteroids quite well.

Hothie, I'm curious- do you think the less ships/ higher skilled pilots meta is increasing because of Wave 2 upgrades/ pilot talents or more people becoming comfortable enough with moving and manuevering in this game they can get by with fewer ships and are spending the points (wisely) on the abilities named pilots convey? 

Back on topic, anyone tried tanking for the Falcon with Biggs? Biggs pulling shots away from a Falcon using Expose (and probably Chewie as insurance) seems like it might be a fun surprise to bust out on an opponent to crack a particularly tough nut. 

I think the best thing about Wave 2 is the many different directions the meta can go in. I was really getting tired of fighting Imperial swarms every single weekend. Not hating on them, just saying some variety will be nice. 

I've only used my A-Wing in a couple of games, but I think in the dogfight mission people will still gravitate towards other ships. The A-Wing has been decent in delivering that pseudo-alpha strike Homing Missiles type shot, but I find after that, it's a lot of net zero hit results. Admittedly, I've only used the cards that came with the ship (so no Stealth Device, etc.), but while I've yet to have it destroyed, it also doesn't do a whole lot for me. I've toyed with the notion of fielding them en masse, but I think it's a little too expensive to do a proper TIE Swarm type of build for what you get. If a scenario is released, however, where ships are tasked with doing something like ID-ing cargo containers or something, I think the A-Wing suddenly becomes way more useful.

As it is right now, I've found their main use to be clean-up duty; finishing off those TIEs with 1 hull point left so I'm not wasting 3 or 4 attack dice from an X-Wing overkilling. I started mine on the flank and let him get in front of the main attack squadron. After TIEs started getting damaged, he'd swoop in. Didn't work too badly at all. Again, only having one at my disposal is somewhat limiting. 

Duraham said:

Uh… what? If any ship out there is going to survive to push a torp and missile out the window, it will be this ship.  It's double the Hull, double the Shield of an X-wing and double the Agility of a Y-wing.  It will survive to fire both those secondary weapons.  I'm not saying you should load up one of these with every secondary weapons available but it has the best odds of surviving the alpha strike to release it's secondary missile.  I don't really care for torpedoes anyway so I only take the Slave I title for fun.  A second missile bay on it would be pretty sexy though…

Vorpal Sword said:

Vorpal Sword said:

You don't get a Gunner card with the YT-1300, so I haven't tried it it.  But Luke (one of the most expensive upgrades in the game) is just Awsome!!!

Shooting at a TIE with evasion often goes like this

Roll three attack dice - its pretty low (likely to miss even without the evasion) Pik up all the dice and roll them again (Han's ability)

The TIE rolls three agility dice. The TIE spends his evade and is able to avoid taking damage (Miss)

Luke give another roll- roll three more attack dice if they are bad re-roll all of them with Han, Luke turns 1 eye to a hit.

And pow the TIe wiffs his agility roll and DIES!

Sure this doesn't happen eveytime but it happens more than you would think.

Also if only one TIE is in range 1, you get 4 attack Dice.  And since Han is Skill 10 it will very likely be dead before it get's to shoot.

In fact my whole manuvering with the Falcon is to try to avoid having more than one TIE in Range 1

I am a little surprised at the lack of success with the Firespray.  I actually wasn't sure I was going to buy one, but was glad to win one at a Kessel Run.  I have had a blast playing with it and also been really successful.

The only time the Firespray has been awful for me has been when I have overspent on it.  As long as I keep the upgrades that I use low, then I have no trouble doing well.  In fact, I am already planning lists involving 2 Firesprays.

It may be that they suit my playstyle.  With wave 1, I typically played 3 ship Rebel builds.  While those are seen as weaker, I did make it to the finals of 2 Kessel Runs with 3 ship Rebels.

Anyways, I when I play the Firespray, I primarily play Krassis with an Ion Cannon and a Seismic Charge.  Then I sometimes add a Gunner or Missile, but just as often not.  At just 40-45 points, I can easily add 4 TIEs to come along and support him.  Krassis's ability means that he can evade every turn and still have a boosted attack.  I can use the Ion Cannon to setup easy shots for my TIEs.  The Seismic Charge is brilliant.  I can do damage without rolling dice or using an action.  

For me the Firespray plays like a large X-Wing, with double the toughness and an Ion Cannon to setup the rest of my ships.  There is nothing wrong with that.

Cid_MCDP said:

Again, purely my own opinion, I think the new Pilot talents/upgrades are  the main cause. Now you can go beyond building a chump squad around Wedge and Vader. Now you've got Tycho, Turr, Soontir, Han, Krassis, among others that can make for a really effective 1-2 punch that was almost non-existent in Wave 1. Add onto that the upgrades like Stealth Device, Push the limit, etc, and you can really trick out your higher pilots. Stealth Device helps with Wedge's main downfall, his defense. And keep in mind the Elite Pilot Talents generally only occur on the higher pilot skills, so you won't be able to use PtL unless you're running a higher skill pilot. (I know, I know, Black Squad, Green squad, etc, but I'm speaking generally.) I think this is why you're seeing fewer ships/higher skills.

Cid_MCDP said:

Variety is always good. I'm curious to see where the meta goes as well. Wave 2 brings lots of interesting possibilities and choices, some of which have yet to be discovered.

Cid_MCDP said:

I think you're dead-on with this assessment. Awings without missiles are like flies, they're annoying but don't do much. You almost need to run some type of missiles on Awings much like Ion Cannon on Ywings in order for them to be effective and worth their points in your squad. Their 2 attack dice really don't make them a very effective attacker, although 3 defense dice and stealth make them very tough to destroy.

Ok, large ship discussion:

I don't know how your Kessel Runs ran, or what your experience is with the large bases, but from what I have found, they tend to lose their actions over half of the time during the combat rounds. Avoiding other ships and asteroids proves to be just too much for the YT/Firespray. That is why I hesitate to put upgrades like Marksmanship or the Millenium Falcon Title card on them, because it is just too easy as the opponent to be able to block all of the movements they can take so that they won't be able to take their actions. And when you trick them out with missiles, you almost need to use those missiles immediately for 2 main reasons:

1. You can usually target lock early, when you have fewer ships in your way and can plan your initial route through the asteroids, so that you can take your action to target lock. Being able to perform a target lock later on in the game becomes increasingly difficult as maneuvering becomes more complicated.

2. You have to use your front firing arc in order to use secondary weapons for both large ships. It is much easier to have an opponent in your front firing arc in the opening rounds than it is later on in the game, especially at the ranges listed on the secondary weapons.

I'm not saying it's impossible later on, just that as the rounds become later, it becomes more difficult to pull off, especially before the ship is destroyed. And, in my playing, they haven't lasted nearly as long as they should have for their points. Maybe they fit your playstyle better, but for me, I prefer to spend the points on more TIEs.

hothie said:

to add on, it is also very easy to range 1 them due to their large bases, and even without mentioning the lack of side firing arcs for the Firespray, when you have upwards of 2-3 ships being able to range 1 it every turn, you are going to have big problems staying alive, even with all that hp. They do play pretty well in smaller games (50-70 ish games), but the more points you play, the poorer they get

hothie said:

I would say that at least initially, my experience matched this.  I was accustomed to maneuvering my ships in small clusters and really struggled to not run into my own ships, let alone asteroids and the enemy.  However, with more play I have been having a better time of it.  I have made it through my last few games without more than 1 or 2 collisions, some with none at all.  That being said, I would still avoid upgrades that require actions with them as they are still more prone to action loss than most.  Missiles are probably better spent on other platforms.

With the Firespray I have found myself making much more use of the Straight 4 move than I have with other ships.  It really helps to get separation and generally will put someone in my rear arc.  I think people focus too much on the fact that the Firespray can't shoot 360 like the YT-1300.  It still has twice the fire arc of every other ship in the game.

I was actually concerened that swarming a large ships base to deny actions would be too easy.  But like you, I have noticed that with the influx of some Wave 2 ships and upgrades squads are trending smaller and you see fewer Academy/Rookie pilots.  Certainly a 3 ship Rebel build can't waste maneuvers trying to swamp you every turn without exposing himself to the rest of your ships.

Good points, shmitty. I have thought about builds trending towards fewer ships being better for maneuvering the large ships, and I think you're right.

Another random point about large base ships; it takes 2 Ion cannon hits to ionize it. With wave 2 builds, I have yet to see anyone make a 2 Y-wing build or a 2-Firespray build, both with Ion cannons. So if you do run a large ship, I wouldn't expect to see it get ionized. Although I would love to show up to a random tourney with a 2 Ywing Rebel Wave 2 build, just to see if anyone runs a large ship so I could ionize it. :)

And, I haven't stated this yet, but thank you to everyone for chiming in to this discussion. :) I think we are all learning a lot from each others' experience.