Cid_MCDP said:

The Y-Wing's sluggish movement is offset by the Ion Turret's ability to hit anything within Range 2 of the ship, regardless of facing.  If you're talking about running a naked Y-Wing, then I agree, it would be sluggish and have a horrible ability to output damage.

Even with Boost, I can't imagine running a Y-Wing without the Ion Turret.  Even Dutch, who's really there to donate Target Locks, still works well with the Turret, since you have to Target Lock something anyways to make him work, you might as well get an Ion shot it, and not have to worry about your own fire arc.

I would like to hear more on any in-depth talk of using Boost with Y-Wings, beyond corner case scenarios though.  I always like learning new tricks in a game.

I see boost as a great way to get ships to Range 1 for attacks. Just don't overestimate the distance or you will overlap and won't get to attack ;)

herozeromes said:

Just like Barrel Roll, you cannot Boost if it would cause the base to overlap another ship or an obstacle.  

cleardave said:

Yeah, I realize that Y-Wing's movement is offset by the 5 points everyone pays for an Ion Cannon Turret. I also realize that virtually no one anywhere runs a Y-Wing that doesn't provide that exact same one-trick-pony functionality. Hell, outside of a few brave souls who run Salm with 2x Torpedoes, even the Dutch and Garven BFFs list functions in essentially the same way. 

Admittedly, you still catch a few people off guard with a Y-Wing, especially if you don't generally utilize one, but most Imp players have learned ways to mitigate the Y-Wing as again, it really only ever gets used in one specific role. 

That's where I think Boost could actually be utilized to give the Y-Wing a slightly more engaging offensive role than just floating around the edges of a fight, trying to stay away from anything too dangerous lobbing in ion shots. 

I mean, it's not a game-changer by any stretch, but like I said before, using a Boost action on a ship that only has two items in the Action Bar to start with, it's not like you're giving up a ton of Action functionality to begin with. It's more a tactic to catch a player off guard than anything. It's something personally I'd try out a time or two in a friendly setting, then shelve it until the Regionals or something when most folks will be going with tried-and-true lists they've played (and have been played against) numerous times. 

Cid_MCDP said:

Salm with Torpedoes is a good opening shot to make on the initial pass.  Your opponent won't get any bonus defense dice, and since Torpedoes turns one Focus into a Critical Hit, and Horton re-rolls blanks, you have a fair chance of getting some easy damage at range in before anything interesting happens.  Ideally that opening hit is done at Range 3, so the counter attack is less potent.  You might scrape a hit off a TIE Fighter, but against an X-Wing or Y-Wing, you'll have a good chance at carving open their shields.

The one trick to the Ion Turret is really about taking advantage of the Ion Token.  In a game where your opponent moves in secret, knowing exactly where they will be next turn is invaluable knowledge.  I find that if I'm running Y-Wings, I don't go with less than 2 for this reason.  Disrupting formations is very handy.  As well, you can force your opponent's ships into bad spots on following turns, like setting up collisions with asteroids, which gives them potential damage, and also costs an action, and if you're really lucky, they're shooting.

It's hard for Imperials to really swarm up multiple Y-Wings unless they have some serious numbers, like 6+ ships, which is a possibility, but I see a lot of Vader builds that cut it to 5.  If you set it up right, you can zap a couple of TIE's, then collide with them on your move, thus negating mutual exchange of fire, but then you're free to hit another TIE with the Ion Turret, and knock that ship out of the action for a turn.

The real trick to performing the Ion Turret rodeo is to ensure there's at least 2 Y-Wings, 3 being ideal, with a solid X-Wing escort ship to pick off the disabled ships safely and without recourse.  At that point, you also have to be very careful and precise in your movements to always keep your actions so you can Focus/Target Lock as needed.  I seldom Focus with my Y's because at Range 1-2, I don't find it mitigates enough damage that a Target Lock/Ion Turret shot won't fix, Horton being the exception, as his re-rolls at Range 2 mean I can Focus/Ion a target there and save a hit point or two over the match.

Anyways, we're getting into a whole separate discussion on the merits of the Ion Turret (or not) vs Boost, so let's not hijack the thread's original intent, which was to discuss whether or not the Engine Upgrade card is overpriced, which, as I've stated earlier, I feel it is not, for reasons you can read in earlier posts if you care to.

No one has mentioned that the Engine Upgrade has synergy with Daredevil. Engine Upgrade gives the Boost action to the action bar, and Daredevil requires the boost action to be on the action bar or else you can suffer damage. Without even using the boost action, merely having the upgrade and using Daredevil allows a safe 180 turn that isn't a K-turn (really, a U-turn! haha).

So, that needs to get added on as a bonus PRO for the engine upgrade.

Great point about how to use daredevil. I hadn't considered it because I don't have that card yet.

Nevertheless, it still doesn't address the question at hand, which is, does the Engine Mod card cost too much?

There's no doubt that boost is powerful and useful, but is it worth 4 points?

A few points:

Engine Upgrade gives you an Action that you can take, whereas Shield Upgrade and Stealth Device just add to your ship as is. There's a big difference there. When I played a game with Mauler and Backstabber with Engine Upgrade, I found that I didn't use the Boost action nearly as much as I thought I would, simply because it takes away one of your other, more useful actions like Focus or Evade, or even Barrel Roll for that matter. I knew I could use Boost, but the other actions seemed more appropriate at the time. So, I would say that it should cost 3 due to the fact that you have to give up one of your other actions to use it, IF you can use it (still has the collision restriction.) You mainly want to use it on pilots that can take another action, like Vader or in combination with Push the Limit, or if being used with Daredevil on ships without the Boost action normally.

Also, Engine Uprade on a YT/Firepsray is tons of fun, but not defensively as has been discussed. I personally use it offensively on my Outer Rim Smuggler. Since he's a level 1, run him straight 4, then boost, and you've literally covered half of the board in one turn. Your opponent usually won't see that move coming, then they run their entire squad into you, thus losing their actions. It's loads of fun to pull off, creating a traffic jam wherever you've parked your YT. It screws with your opponent this round, because he's lost his actions, and it screws with him next round, because now his squad has lost its cohesion, making it much tougher to fly. For that, I would pay 4 points. :)

Giving a ship boost is so worth four points. First as hothie stated it is sick on a yt100. With the 360 degree firing arch you can manuver out of the majority of fire and keep most ships in your sights. I try to Never take a focus action with a Falcon because it has enough other offensive upgrades like Lukeinsurance.  Boost by its self is not that good but like EVERYTHING in this game when stacked with other upgrades it is devistating. If  it was one point it would be too cheap.  

Picasso said:

Well, you can get an evade action on that ship for only one point with the Falcon Title card. You can add a barrel roll to many pilots with Expert Handling for 2 points (though it costs you a stress so that should be factored into the cost) you can get a free second target lock for 3 points with Weapons Engineer. I'm not sure anyone sugested it should be 1 point. I think the consensus of those who agree with me is that Engine Mods is worth 3 points also.

I think you are missing what I'm trying to say.  The reason it is four points is because when stacked with certain pilot abilities and other upgrade cards it is too powerful at three points.  I've dominated using push the limit with boost.  Lando becomes one of the best support characters in the game with boost, Luke, Nien, and push the limit.  Also with the larger base on the falcon, it is a much larger boost allowing Lando's ability to have a much greater range.  Everyone talks about rebel pilots having to work together or pass actions, no one talks about making the squad more maneuverable so you are not getting shot at.  Even with the large base, if the ship is boosting out of firing range and still able to shoot back at you with three dice sometimes four, that's just sick. For a long time I thought the shield upgrade was the way to go, honestly I was so wrong.  If you want to make the argument that one point isn't that big of a deal, think about a rookie pilot X-wing.  Make them 20 points. You can now field a swarm of five.  Make boost three points and you can play four for the current cost of the card.  3x4=12 any way you multiply it.  Think about four x-wings with boost at three points and r2 unit at one point. Those x-wings just became rediculous.  

I think what I'm trying to say is don't underestimate BOOST.   Play it a lot. I found a way to break up those nasty tie swarms using boost and being able to shoot them when they can't shoot you is huge. 

There are two lists in the new wave I do not want to play against, all A-wings or allInterceptor a 

I did misunderstand your point, but I think that's because you misstated it. You said "if it was one point it would be too cheap," but I think you meant if it was one point LESS it would be too cheap (i.e. if it was three points). At least that's what your follow up post argues.

If you read back through the thread, I have agreed to the power, utility, and versatility of the boost action.

I also confess to having only played with it a couple times at this point. I played with A-wings in the Kessel run and was able to boost them around into having good shots and getting out of firing arcs, so that they both survived to the finish of the game. But I don't own A-wings or Interceptors yet, so I only have the option to add boost through Engine Modifications at home currently. But the reason I have not tested it more is partly because at 4 points it doesn't seem worth it.

But I am going to try out a go-for-broke, souped up Han Solo in the Falcon squad this weekend. I'll add boost and see what I can do with it. :)

How's this squad for a combination of ridiculous maneuverabilty, combined with thematic Original Trilogy fun, with just one concession to playability. ("What's Nien Nunb doing in there? He didn't come along till the third movie?")

Total Squad Points: 100

Pilot: Luke Skywalker
X-Wing (28)
Upgrades:

• Elusiveness (2)
• Proton Torpedoes (4)
• R2-D2 (4)

Pilot: Han Solo
YT-1300 (46)
Upgrades:

• Expert Handling (2)
• Concussion Missiles (4)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Millenium Falcon (1)
• Chewbacca (4)
• Nien Nunb (1)

You can just hear Luke (Pilot skill 8) saying to Han (Pilot skill 9) "I'm not such a bad pilot myself!" Han: "Maybe if you took the Veteran Instincts card instead, kid."

Sorry, I was at bar trivia last night so my point may have been lost even to me.  Drink why you think right?  Anyway I like the squad.  I'd try it without Luke and two lower pilot skill fighters also. But play the Han and Luke combo cause it is fun to do.

Also I do forget that not everyone has all the new ships yet.  Between getting a falcon at worlds and my group cleaning up at two Kessel Runs, and myself winning a third we have doubles of most of the ships and I have a set of wave two.

The interceptors are in my opinion too cheap in some instances because of boost and the pilot abilities.  They are x-wing killers. Always in the right place at the right time.  I've been using the falcon with boost to counter this and it works great. Also supporting it with an X and A-wing or sometimes two Y-wings with ion canon.  I've used what I now call the "Hothie Manuver," to take away the maneuverability of those darn squints. And then let the ion blasts keep them off pace.

I guess what all this amounts to is giving the right pilot boost can be sick and needs to be regulated in some way.  That is why the high point cost works for me.