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X-Wing
Take control of powerful Rebel X-wings and nimble Imperial TIE fighters!
Moderator: ffgjoshFFGMarkGecko Topics: 1403 | Posts: 17066
Dagobah's Death Star Trench Run Mission
Published on 21 September 2012 - 23:28:36
Page 2 of 3 (36 messages) « First page... 1 2 3 ...Last page »
Reply #16 | Published on 26 September 2012 - 10:45:43

When you paste the image URL into the image dialog/widget thing, wait until the Latin words change to your chosen image. Then you can click OK an the image should show in the final post. I wanna seeeee, dude!

 

Also, there's an updated version of the PDF (using the same link as before). Lots of changes, hopefully all for the better.

Copy-and-paste link: http://www.outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Dagobahs-DSTR-v01.pdf

Reply #17 | Published on 26 September 2012 - 22:08:45

I figured it out. I don't have an online photo account. I'll need to set one up.

We played tonight. 4 of us. It went well,   Rebels 125 / Imp 100 .

Rebels destoryed 2 power nodes but didn't help them much. I feel they started to far from the Straight shot to the trench.  Interesting new set up you have.

I like what I see.

Star wars: X-wing

Reply #18 | Published on 26 September 2012 - 22:43:47

Email them to me if you want, and I'll upload them. luminousbeings at yahoo or gmail

Reply #19 | Published on 27 September 2012 - 10:45:13
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 I'd really like to see this mission integrated with these tiles

Without Signature
Reply #20 | Published on 27 September 2012 - 12:42:57
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The Rebels' destroyed, two power nodes and at least two turbo laser turrets.  I think the bigger issue is making the rules to get in and out of the trench simplistic. So newer players understand clearly how to enter the trench properly. We had several failed attempts to get into the trench and by the time this happened, all of their moves that round were going to lead to even more failed attempts the next turn.

 

Space Debri: X-Wing miniatures blog

Reply #21 | Published on 27 September 2012 - 13:45:25
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AncientAngel said:

The Rebels' destroyed, two power nodes and at least two turbo laser turrets.  I think the bigger issue is making the rules to get in and out of the trench simplistic. So newer players understand clearly how to enter the trench properly. We had several failed attempts to get into the trench and by the time this happened, all of their moves that round were going to lead to even more failed attempts the next turn.

It also didnt make it very fun when one of the ships barely had one tiny sliver of a corner outside of the trench and the call was made that the ship is outside the trench. It is difficult to run the guantlet on the way to the trench of TIE's and numerous stationary obstacles only for when you finally make it to the trench to be told you are outside because of a millimeter of base.

This is not the scenario's fault though. When played casually, I am sure this scenario could be a blast.

 

Feedback on the scenario for DagobahDave:

TIE's can pontially abuse the rule that when a ship is being based by another ship that it cannot perform an action. Since it takes an action to enter the trench, and the rebels are outnumbered by 50% - 100% of their numbers, it can be easy for TIE's to just barrel roll at the entrance of the trench thus denying the likliehood of rebels entering… pretty much ever. I think for this scenario specifically, basing should not prevent the necessary and specific action of dropping elevation to reach the trench.

I really think the drift rules are very clever for maneuvering in tighter spaces. This is a rule I am thinking of adopting on a more universal level and is true to the theme of space craft where atmospheric planes cannot make such maneuvers as easily. Very handy in any scenario where there is a lot of obstacles, such as a board with a lot of asteroid fields, etc.

It is a good scenario overall. I do however think it is a bit long for what it is, but with a bit of streamlining to get the time below 2 hours, it has a lot of potential to be great.

Reply #22 | Published on 30 September 2012 - 19:26:52

Round 4! Great round. New rules set was great. New Map set up was great. On my personal map I imposed your trench template onto the DS background. It came out good but slightly shorter 42” long. My other trench was probably 6”ish wide this one is closer to 7. The new countdown timer is great. Timing wise it workout out good. It forced the Rebels to take down a power node and set back the clock by 1. Drift wasn’t just a nice feature you needed to use it in the trench.
The Rebels won with no time to spare. He actually got 2 ships onto the targeting spot at one time. Darth had one shot to take him out and did not. Luke destroyed the DS. Classic  


Something to think about. As imp I knew what ships had proton torps In our space dog fighting we can fire though a ship. I feel you need to adjust a rule for line of site in the trench.


IF ship A is targeting Ship B but Ship C is in Line of site
Then no target on ship B “You let me worry about ------- you keep your eyes open for those fighters”
I’ll attach my map, but that foam board one is very cool.
 

Star wars: X-wing

Reply #23 | Published on 30 September 2012 - 22:01:20
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I just ordered some Death Star templates, so I will be playing this soon.

 

Looks very good.

 

Between my friends we have over 30 Rebel ships and plenty of Tie Fighters. I've been wanting to do an actual recreation of the death star fight.

Great Trench set up!

 

 

Red Six: I got a problem here. My converter's running wild.
Biggs: Eject!
Red Six: I can hold it. Gimme more room to run.
Biggs: You're too low. Pull up!
Red Six: No, I'm all right…
[death scream]

Reply #24 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 12:15:00

 "The Rebels' destroyed, two power nodes and at least two turbo laser turrets. I think the bigger issue is making the rules to get in and out of the trench simplistic. So newer players understand clearly how to enter the trench properly. We had several failed attempts to get into the trench and by the time this happened, all of their moves that round were going to lead to even more failed attempts the next turn."

Newer players tend to have trouble estimating movement distance and direction in this game, and this mission requires some precision maneuvering. If you play the scenario again, I would recommend giving every player a few minutes to practice their trench approach before play, letting them lay out the templates and plan out their maneuvers.

You could move the trench entry cut-off line further back, if that makes it easier. If you don't think it should cost an action to enter the trench zone, skip it.

I wanted to prevent ships from dropping into the trench and instantly target locking on something down there. Vader is the only ship with an advantage there, since he can do that -- and if that makes the Imperial player more likely to deploy him on this mission, I'm totally okay with that.


"It also didnt make it very fun when one of the ships barely had one tiny sliver of a corner outside of the trench and the call was made that the ship is outside the trench. It is difficult to run the guantlet on the way to the trench of TIE's and numerous stationary obstacles only for when you finally make it to the trench to be told you are outside because of a millimeter of base.

"This is not the scenario's fault though. When played casually, I am sure this scenario could be a blast."

1mm is "too close to call," so I'd call it in. But yeah, that's the game, not the mission. I literally have to draw a line somewhere. :)


"TIE's can pontially abuse the rule that when a ship is being based by another ship that it cannot perform an action. Since it takes an action to enter the trench, and the rebels are outnumbered by 50% - 100% of their numbers, it can be easy for TIE's to just barrel roll at the entrance of the trench thus denying the likliehood of rebels entering… pretty much ever. I think for this scenario specifically, basing should not prevent the necessary and specific action of dropping elevation to reach the trench."

I don't think there's a risk of that happening unless the Rebels delay or botch the trench run, and if they delay or botch that, they've probably already lost. The Rebels have a full round on their own to maneuver toward the trench, and they're closer to the trench than the Imperials. The Rebels should be in the trench a full round before the Imperials have a chance to block them.


"I really think the drift rules are very clever for maneuvering in tighter spaces. This is a rule I am thinking of adopting on a more universal level and is true to the theme of space craft where atmospheric planes cannot make such maneuvers as easily. Very handy in any scenario where there is a lot of obstacles, such as a board with a lot of asteroid fields, etc."

We haven't started using Drift for general play, but I suspect the maneuver is balanced enough that probably wouldn't break the game to use it.


"The Rebels won with no time to spare. He actually got 2 ships onto the targeting spot at one time. Darth had one shot to take him out and did not. Luke destroyed the DS. Classic"

Sweet! I'm surprised two ships made it into position at once, but it's cool that it worked out that way.


"Something to think about. As imp I knew what ships had proton torps In our space dog fighting we can fire though a ship. I feel you need to adjust a rule for line of site in the trench."

In an earlier version, ships in the trench could obstruct fire. I'll probably put that back in for the next version.

Reply #25 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 13:56:23

awesome. I've got some great response from my friends on these pics alone. Which has steered them to want to play on Wed.

Unless I'm missing something. I'll be honest I didn't read every word of the new rule set. So I missed a few things ie: lose 1 on the drift but makes sense. The other would be the ships on the targeting spot. I did skim that. I will read it more carefully But ya he got his ships side by side using drift and both ships were able to stop just about next to each other to take the shot. one of the shots should have it.

Also forgot to mention we started the countdown clock after the first full round.

Kudos Dave  great job on this mission.

I encourage anyone else out there to play it it's easy , fun and a fun 2hrs this will speed up with more skilled pilots :)

Star wars: X-wing

Reply #26 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 16:36:21

Dave,

We have not had a chance to play the scenario yet (more ships arriving tomorrow) but I thought I'd share something I've been working on. I took a playmat image I found on BGG and did some tweaking and resizing to fit your scenario. I was intrigued by the diagonal grid placement and thought it might add some variation to the playability. The Imps and Rebs can set up on either side of the map, Rebs behind the red line and Imps on the opposite side behind the green. The  measurements are not precisely to the range ruler, but fairly close. The diagonal trench setup will make the approach and entry very different depending on the side you start on. The grids also may help to line up ships during setup. The full-size file is designed to print to a 4' x 4' area.

Let me know what you think, I can do more tweaking on it. If there is enough interest I'll provide a link to the full size version.

Massive props and credit to Steve Toth (ElDiablo01) for doing the original file and hosting it on BGG!

Trench Run Small

Without Signature
Reply #27 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 18:09:31

Where is the LIKE button :)

Star wars: X-wing

Reply #28 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 18:34:00

I'm surprised at the rule that destroying enemy ships results in the countdown timer rising by 1. It seems to me that shooting down TIEs would have no real effect on the Death Star's firing arc or its capability of blowing up the Yavin 4 base. Was this a necessary adjustment to improve play balance?

"Truth has power. And if we all gravitate toward similar ideas, maybe we do so because those ideas are true…written deep within us. And when we hear the truth, even if we don't understand it, we feel that truth resonate within us…vibrating with our unconscious wisdom. Perhaps the truth is not learned by us, but rather, the truth is re-called…re-membered…re-cognized…as that which is already inside us."   Peter Solomon, The Lost Symbol

Reply #29 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 19:02:36

 @Rollins: I was one of the rebel players (Andy) from Sunday's successful DS destruction! Big thanks for a fantastic intro to the scenario and my first actual game of X-Wing! I did realize after our game, that we had 151 pts -- I guess you spotted us one for our first play .

@ziggy2000: I would definitely be interested in the high-resolution final. Looks great.

After only one play of the scenario, here are my observations:

* Incredibly fun. My rebel teammate and I continually commented on how it truly felt like the trench run.

* Timer. I believe the relationship between timer and distance from setup to firing box is a key dynamic. Not sure if it was the stretched 42" map, but it was basically impossible to get from setup, into the trench and into firing position in 6 turns. I think that's perfect-- or close to perfect. This gives the rebels something else that they must do (i.e. take out power nodes). It could almost be stretched to requiring an additional two turns beyond the six.

* Strategy. We basically chose to do things: (1) get into and down the trench as fast possible (3 x-wings, 2 torps), and (2) take out as many power nodes as fast as possible (2 x-wings, 1 y-wing). A small complaint, but none of these strategies involved actually caring about destroying imperial ships. The power node squad basically ignored them and tried to kill as many power nodes as they could. I would like to see more reason to engage the enemy ships… I think I saw that killing an imperial ship extends the timer? That would be a great reason to engage right there.

* Power nodes. I'd consider simplifying the power node destruction result a bit. I liked all the results and that each one had the option to increase the timer instead, but it seemed a little fiddly. Might even be MORE fiddly, but you could make each power node unique and randomly place them on the map. Use icons to indicate what they do when destroyed: advance timer, stress tokens, etc. Would add some randomness to the power node team's setup and attack plan. Also really liked he ion cannon's extra usefulness against turbolasers and power nodes.

* Proton torpedos. Consider keeping which ships contain the torps as hidden information? Would keep more ships in play as "important."

* Potential for early losing conditions? This obviously didn't happen in our game, but I could envision some early losing conditions: (1) ships with torps get destroyed early; (2) lose ability to increase the timer: if surface ships are destroyed or roll poorly; trench ships can't 180 turn to destroy ships and would have to exit the trench to try and increase the clock. Not necessarily a bad thing to lose this way, but result in some short, bad luck sessions.

* Trench entrance. I think this was very easy to understand and Rollins allowed us some pre-planning to map out our approach. I do believe that with further plays there would eventually be one best way to always setup and enter the trench. Maybe consider some random setup variable that forces this phase of the game to be dynamic? Would hate for the trench team's play to eventually be put on rails.

Thanks again to the creators of the scenario and Rollins for a great game and introduction. Couldn't have had more fun, win or lose. Of course Luke getting the final shot/hit was pretty epic.

Without Signature
Reply #30 | Published on 01 October 2012 - 19:44:19

 I'm surprised at the rule that destroying enemy ships results in the countdown timer rising by 1. It seems to me that shooting down TIEs would have no real effect on the Death Star's firing arc or its capability of blowing up the Yavin 4 base. Was this a necessary adjustment to improve play balance?

It provides motivation to attack Imperial ships. Without it, the Rebels don't get anything out of it.


Let me know what you think, I can do more tweaking on it. If there is enough interest I'll provide a link to the full size version.

I like it! I think it'd be more useful without any starting zones printed on it, so folks can use any sort of setup they want. Anyway, carry on! :)

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