As a droid, R2 is definitely worthy of praise.

However, there is a small but vocal faction of Star Wars fans that insist that the entire series is REALLY about another droid:  The incomparable GONK power droid…

I wonder what he could do in an X-Wing.

bsmith13 said:

You, sir or madam, are my hero.  As power droids are walking power supplies… shield recharge or super charged primary weapon sounds about right. 

-DavicusPrime

 When it comes to the people suggesting that tournaments should require players to have both Imperial and Rebel squadrons so that "Mirror Matches" can be avoided, the ultimate argument against that is simply that it's a bad idea to force players to build full squadrons on both sides. $15 a ship isn't cheap when you can be talking 5-8 ships on the Imperial side, and that's assuming the tournament point level stays at 100 long term instead of drifting up to encourage players to keep expanding their forces with new expansions.

R2D2 said:

Why is it the assumption that FFG wrote their Tournament Rules with out testing the game with those rules (same faction matches)?

ScottieATF said:

I assume this because people have reported here that some homofactional (brand new word I just made up) matches ended up with no kills at all! Surely that wasnt FFGs intention?

Also, in general people ive spoken to seem to suggest that Imp vs Imp was not very satisfying and got too clustered on the size of space used.

Regardless, I dont like the thematic concept of having clones of the same character. The jot of this game (for me) is the variety it offers. As a result watching darth vader trying to shoot darth vader out of the sky seems less interesting to me than seeing ships with different stats and abilities (and therefore different optimal play styles) match up…

R2D2 said:

Yes, some IMP vs IMP actions ended with no kills.  In the first tournament ever, featuring players that had little to no experience with the game.  So while yes clearly that isn't FFG intention, the results of that tournament are indicative of really nothing.  It was many players first times playing the game, their inability to score kills in that much up is not a indication of how that match up will actually play out amongst more experienced players.

More over every game has to sacrifice thematic elements in order to actually work as a game, particularly in tournament play.  Should Tycho Celchu not every team up with Biggs since Biggs was dead before his defection?  Should one AGoT deck not be able to play a important character because their opponent drew a version of that character first?  Games don't work as games if the needlessly slave to theme.

Your suggestion for tournament play doesn't work for a few reasons.  First it "doubles" the investment for a player to even compete.  Secondly given the need for a time limit it would be impossible to play both sides in a given round, thus leaving even more of the tournament up to random chance.

ScottieATF said:

I agree with ScottieATF.  You can't compare playing time of players who have never played before with players who have some experience.  The reason games didn't finish was because everyone was unfamiliar with the rules.  That can take a lot of time when trying to figure things out in a tournament.  But once people get used to the game and become more familiar with the rules, the games will go faster.  And in regular tournaments, I believe it is the responsibility of both players to make decisions quick enough so that the game ends before time runs out.  If two experienced players meet in a tournament, there is no reason that games shouldn't end before time runs out.

Roy

I would like to point out that I was at the Tournament and had one of those battles where no one died.  In none of my battles did any one lose more than a two ships, and that only happened once.

Yes, we were new to the game and I imagine that we will get more deadly as we learn the game better, but the reason why there were so few kills was the fact that TIE fighters have a good defense and a poor attack.  That will not change as we gain more experience.  Another factor was that with two Imp players there were so many ships on the board that collisions were really hard to avoid and lots of ships had to forgo their actions.  I expect that over time good players will learn how to avoid such messy brawls, but TIE's do not have the Target Lock action.  The only offensive action they can take is focus (unless they have upgrades) so as we get better, TIE's will actually get harder to hit.

 OK, so I was already working up some numbers, but here's the chart:

So the difference between a TIE attacking an X-Wing and a TIE attacking a TIE is 41% vs 29% chance to hit.  That's only about a 1/4 reduction in hit chances.  Yes, this ignores Evades and Focuses, but if everyone is colliding all the time like you say then no one is getting those anyway.

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

First of all as a Math Guy I have to say AWESOME Probability CHART. 

But I have to say that 29% is pretty low, just less than 1/3.  They also have 3 hull points so on average you have to take 9 TIE shots to kill a TIE.  (that does not include doing more than one hit on a single shot)

That comes down to about all the possible shots from two turns targeted against a single TIE.

Imagine that I take 5 TIEs in my squadron (which I did in the tournament) and I shoot all 5 of them at a single target.  According to this math it should take me two turns to kill a single TIE. 

Getting shots on TIEs isn't that easy.

 As a point that is the percentage for all hits, not just a single hit.  It's also including criticals.  So the damage potential for all of those hits is a bit more than the 1/3 chance of hitting.

Hrathen said:

I agree.  TIEs have a good defense and a poor attack.  And TIE v TIE games could take longer.  But what I am saying is that as you gain experience, you will be able to make choices faster than you did at GenCon.  Which means you should be able to get through more rounds than you did at GenCon.  Which also means that you should be able to take more shots than you did at GenCon.  Which means that you should be able to destroy more TIEs than you did at GenCon.  See what I'm saying?  This is an issue with most head to head games where there is a time limit.  But it is the responsibility of both players to play at a pace that will help the game finish within the allotted time.  It is possible.  And the players who can accomplish this are going to be the ones who are successful at winning tournaments.

Roy

 So after crunching all the numbers if you're playing Imperial vs Imperial unless you have nothing in your arc never take Evade you need the Focus.  At 6% chance to hit straight up against an Evade token, and 12% if you have a Focus to combat it it will be something of a slog.  But then you can take it back to proper tactics and just knowing how to deal with the situation to decrease the play time.