V2 Revision

A lot of spray weapons don't have burst…. I could show you some numbers where this unit will actuially outlive and outkill a unit that costs more than 30 points but I just don't see the point anymore… your own example proved that they are too survivable, IMO. I did mention several ways in which they would be useful and usuable in games without them having to be super buffed… useful and usable doesn't have to mean, live all game, take a ton of fire before they die, fight better, kill more and die less than an SSU squad of 10 that costs twice as much type of approach…. If you want to take the approach that guys that were probably drafted, had a crash course bootcamp, handed a gun and a bucket and are wearing a t-shirt for body armour should live all game long and have more advantages than a special ops unit wearing body armour, then fine… If you want to give them agility rules that are usually reserved for two man teams even though there are 12 of them, fine… I guess they all know parkour…

… Use them, I don't care. I'm not going to try to convince you why this unit doesn't make any sense. I tried to do that earlier in a constructive way when you initially proposed the idea but you were determined to do it anyway and you even ramped it up a notch and made them zombies (though I do see that you did go the other way on the revision where you tried to make them more suppressable which isn't necessary if you take out their anti-suppression abilities as they have larger numbers but should die in larger numbers making the effect of each suppression marker worth more anyway) with better cover abilities rather than worse and they have  a bunch of 16" guns and  a medic and parkour skills, etc, etc. I don't care anymore. Do what you want. I'm done trying to argue.

Regardless of what I think of the actual words written on the cards, you did do a great job on the cards though… they look good. If not for all the special rules and the medic I would probably have tried them out myself.

Strombole said:

The main reason I included Fast and Agile was to represent their lighter kit compared to the Soldier 2 units, as the Rangers and Storm Grenadiers are both the elite special forces of their factions. The fact that they now take additional Suppresion means that they'll be taking less actions as the game goes on unless the rest of the army can keep the heat off them, another situation you see quite often in war movies.

As for making them more survivable, I just showed you the statistics: in the open they are simply shreded to pieces, and even with imroved cover, they still have a smaller chance of surviving than other units. This means that the only advantage of the unit is the high volume of fire they can put out, but only so long as the opponent doesn't bother throwing anything at them.

I know that you're opposed to some of the ideas I'm throwing around, and to be honest that's a good thing, as it's creating conversation around an element of the game that could to be expanded.

 Ok I tried your approach with 2 squads of your allied armor 1 (used bolt action minis from a friend of mine) in a 220 point game.

First of all it was fun. Combined with regular armour it was a very nice game. But and it is a big BUT, the armor 1 troops ruled… with a battlefield of 25% cover they were never in the open (although it was sometimes tricky due to squad size). The added suppression achievd NOTHING. Squad size was too big to make them break and the tokens were regularly removed during command phase. The amount of firepower combined with the speed of the squad left the axis in 3 of 5 turns completely suppressed, so the axis were constantly on the defense. There simply wasn't enough firepower to overcome the cover saves and the medic!

I'd say loose the agile, fieldcraft and heroic presense, keep the rest and it is fine (we will try that out in our next game), because as it is now, there is no reason whatsoever to take any armour 2 infantry, when I could field these guys.

my 2 cents.

Cheers

WOW!!! AWESOME!!! I agree with you!  I like that you actually went out and play tested the theory and came up with some great results as well as some acceptable recomendations. i think that the adjustments you recommend should make the Soldier1  a much more viable and usable troop choice.Now we can make use of the Soldier 1 stats in a friendly house game on a big battlefield and us the Wargames Factory troops!!! SAWEEEET!!! Thanks for the test run!!!

Thanks Doraiya for your Great Looking Cards and for taking the time to come up with the Soldier1 unit card and stats!!! Just a few tweeks and i think it should be good to go!!! Great Job!!!

Plueshpanda said:

Plueshpanda said:

Thanks for the field test, wasn't expecting one so quickly! Try another game with the changes you suggested and we'll see what difference that makes. I'm probably gonna make some other changes I thought up, but testing provides the best feedback for working out the bugs.

Maybe the unit could have make an additional armor roll rather than an automatic hit while in cover? I'll wait till you report back with how they fair with basic cover rules, it's just that from what I derived from the math, they'd be in trouble.

Godam forum hiccups!