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You are here: FFG Forums /  Miniatures /  Dust Warfare

Dust Warfare
Conquer new terrain with intense tabletop miniatures combat
Moderator: FFGAnton Topics: 716 | Posts: 7292
Airdropping allied heavy with embarked troops
Published on 01 May 2012 - 13:39:44
Page 2 of 3 (38 messages) « First page... 1 2 3 ...Last page »
Reply #16 | Published on 04 May 2012 - 16:31:26
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Galadhir said:

Maybe it would have sense if only infantry could airdrop, still cannot imagine the scale of operation to drop a heavy walker.

 

They drop the various parts from 20k feet and assemble it on the way down.     

 I do agree though that it would be hard even today to accomplish it with a vehicle that is easily over 70 tons and with those huge dimensions.  Even the US Air Force C-17A Globemast 3 can only carry a total of around 85 tons.  It can drop 3 Bradleys but could not handle one of those walkers.  It would take a truly massive aircraft to drop one of those walkers but that is the fun of fantasy games.  They must be using something like Huges Spruce Goose on steroids. 

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Reply #17 | Published on 04 May 2012 - 16:56:32

I think that even though this is currently permissable within the rules it was not was intended and will be errata'd. My guess is that it will be limited to infantry units (as per the units definition on pg 23 whih does make the distinction between units and vehiles - only place I found it though). Personnally Im for it as it does make more sense (to me at least) and is more in line with Dust Tactics (which uses the Airlift rule for vehicles not airdrop), which I know is differnent but still provides the basis for Warfare.

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Reply #18 | Published on 05 May 2012 - 08:21:50
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I would limit airdrop to infantry and light walkers or other vehicles up to an armor rating of 3.

Reply #19 | Published on 05 May 2012 - 12:22:56

 I was chatting with my playtesters about this and so we gave it a go.  It worked just fine with out being too powerful, so I think this might actually stick in the game…

I know the intent was to be able to Airdrop on of the Heavies all along, so I have no problem with them dropping in with a full cabin.

 

"Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some questions, but at the end of the day… there are guys who will argue vehemently that the book never tells them to read the top of the die when its rolled." - Quote from a Game Designer

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Reply #20 | Published on 05 May 2012 - 21:24:13

Gobbo said:

 I was chatting with my playtesters about this and so we gave it a go.  It worked just fine with out being too powerful, so I think this might actually stick in the game…

I know the intent was to be able to Airdrop on of the Heavies all along, so I have no problem with them dropping in with a full cabin.

 

But do the guys inside suffer from the air drop rule of the carrier or are they allowed to move out and shoot after the walker drops ?

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Reply #21 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 07:41:53

I don't think that you can give a walker miniature the airdrop platoon upgrade. Under airdrop it states you can give the upgrade to a unit. A unit is defined as a collection of figures operating as a single body near the front of book. Ergo air drop is for units not walkers and not flyers unless they themselves come with the ability.

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Reply #22 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 07:47:24
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Harliquine said:

I don't think that you can give a walker miniature the airdrop platoon upgrade. Under airdrop it states you can give the upgrade to a unit. A unit is defined as a collection of figures operating as a single body near the front of book. Ergo air drop is for units not walkers and not flyers unless they themselves come with the ability.

 

If vehicles aren't units, then you also wouldn't count them for adding up dice for initiative rolls… I'm pretty sure that vehicles are units.

 
Reply #23 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 08:51:12

Yeah, vehicles are referred to as units throughout the entire book

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Reply #24 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 12:01:55

 Yes, vehicles are Units.  Half teh rules in the book would not affect them or be usable if they were not.

@mariettabrit: Yes, once the vehicle has entered play [just as from Reserves], the unit inside may be given a disembark action as normal.  Remember, that they have to be within 3" of the vehicle and use one of their 2 orders to get out of the transport.

 

"Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some questions, but at the end of the day… there are guys who will argue vehemently that the book never tells them to read the top of the die when its rolled." - Quote from a Game Designer

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Reply #25 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 12:14:13

 Im assuming the SSU transports are going to work the same way.

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Reply #26 | Published on 06 May 2012 - 12:59:55

blkdymnd said:

Yeah, vehicles are referred to as units throughout the entire book

This is confusing page 17 last paragraph under Miniatures & Units states "A unit is a collection of miniatures that functions as a single fighting group, led by a Unit Leader. A inot can consist a single miniature (like a Hero) or several miniatures".  Hym very confusing.  Also page 23 under the red Units topic "While the rules for single miniatures are important, to expedite play (and beter represent the player as a commander of his force), miniatures are grouped into units. A unit moves and attacks together, taking its actions at the same time. Chapters 5 & 6 detail…. hym again confusing because it goes onto to support your arguement that a vehicle or aircraft is also a unit.

Sigh this is beyond poor wording as it suggests that units lead by unit leaders are different but are title exactly the same as units who do not have unit leaders. The air drop ability as written allows you to drop a very powerful unit right into the thick of it along with specialized units who already have this "shared" air drop ability. There is no random scatter of the unit and premeasuring is allowed…. sigh it's a rather powerful ability at a discount price and the axis equivalent only applies to a singe light walker whereas the allied version applies to anything. It's very easy to air drop outside of 12" use the vehicle to attack, disembark the squad anywhere with 3" of the vehicle which would put them inside the 12" zone against units that have already been supressed by the machine guns on the air dropped heavy walker thus allowing them to also up on targets creating a beach head for the next turn's paratroops.

I have yet to see this in action but it's not hard to hit an enemy from a flank like this and start a steam roll as the you clear out the immediate area and stick to cover limiting return fire. The enemy has to turn or risk being over run while more air drop units take the objectives.

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Reply #27 | Published on 07 May 2012 - 01:36:24
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 I think its rather silly allowing heavy walkers to airdrop, what sort of plane would be needed to carry it there in the first place!

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Reply #28 | Published on 07 May 2012 - 07:15:40

 Having worked with the Abrams tank for the last 12 years on and off (when not being an infantryman) I don't like the heavy walkers being to air drop, but after trying it out with my buddies it caught them off guard the first time but didn't make such a big impact on later games.  I only have 1 squad of Brits, so maybe spamming them effects it more, but like Russ said earlier placing your squads spread out to extend there denial area.  Hopefully they fix it so the squad can't act.

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Reply #29 | Published on 07 May 2012 - 11:24:49

I see no problem with this tactic at all, aside from the fact it is minimally viable in the long run. a player is able to easily spread out their forces to take advantage of the 12" no airdrop rule and this allows them to protect their walkers and other units. Additionally if an opponent wants to Airdrop a walker closer to my zombies and monkeys with their panzar fist I am all for it, this means I don't have to run to you and you cant act on the turn you came in.

 

As far as the "seems silly a heavy tank can airdrop in" discussion, we are not playing anything resembling the laws of nature and physics as we know them. We have freaking zombies and gorillas with giant super heavy metal fist that are able to run at breakneck speeds. We have people with miniature Rockets attached to their fist they can some how control and use to effect without ripping their arms out of their sockets or just spinning their arms around in giant circles. Yet with all this the thing people are bothered by is that a very large tank can be air dropped? really people?

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Reply #30 | Published on 07 May 2012 - 11:29:19
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Yeah, for me the only issue is whether there is a balance issue with airdropping embarked soldiers on a heavy walker, so that those soldiers can jump out and make a crushing blow that the opponent cannot respond to.

If people are finding that this isn't a balance issue, then I personally have nothing against it, and think it would be fun to do on occasion.

 
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