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You are here: FFG Forums /  Board and Card Games /  Elder Sign

Elder Sign
A fast-paced game of dice and dementia
Moderator: FFGAnton Topics: 178 | Posts: 1076
Elder Sign: FAQ Questions
Published on 14 October 2011 - 13:25:39
Page 3 of 4 (51 messages) « First page... 2 3 4 ...Last page »
Reply #31 | Published on 21 October 2011 - 15:40:02
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Taken from BGG, from a post from another user. Being posted for peer review by FFG for FAQ, not looking for a posted answer.

"While two others and I were in a game at Arkham Nights, Kevin Wilson was watching us play and said that once you focus a die and complete a task, you can't use the same investigator again to focus a different die on a different task that same adventure (though you could use a different investigator to assist of course).

If I understand correctly, for practical terms, its like you don't remove the die from the investigator who is focusing/assisting even after they complete a task (though of course you do after you finish your turn).

Unrelated note: He also mentioned you cast spells (the ones with blank spots to 'hold' dice) *after* you roll the dice (the rulebook being in error)"

Questions:

Is the info on focusing correct, once per your investigator, per adventure card, basically the die and the investigator are locked out once used to complete a task, until the next new start or restart of an adventure card?

Is the info about casting spell cards after the roll and placing a die correct?

 

Without Signature
Reply #32 | Published on 21 October 2011 - 15:53:22
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 Oops, same to have posted the same questions as the user above my post. Didn't see it. Guess we were reading the same BGG post. 

Without Signature
Reply #33 | Published on 23 October 2011 - 13:58:21
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Spending Trophies

If you buy a souvenir at the Entrance, what happens to the Adventure card / Monster trophies?

Are they discarded from the game?
Are Monsters returned to the Monster cup and Adventure cards returned to the bottom of the appropriate decks?

If an Investigator is devoured then it is clear what happens to trophies (page 11, Being Devoured) but the rules do not appear to make any mention of what you do with trophies when they are spent.

Without Signature
Reply #34 | Published on 23 October 2011 - 17:54:23

Arkhamites,

     In addition to playing several games of AH while attending Arkham Nights 2011 last week, I did have a chance to also play a half-dozen games of Elder Sign...one of which we asked Richard Launius to moderate for us.  One of the things that keeps showing-up in these threads, as well as the 300+ over on BGG's site has to do with the Vincent Lee"s and Carolyn Fern's abilities vs. Ithaqua and Hastur.  Speaking to Richard during the game and playing a fairly long game at that gave us some insights to the "rules." 

Understand, first and foremost that Richard is "all about having fun with the gamr" and doesn't stand on ceremony regarding the rules, especially those deemed ambiguous, at least by the way we played.  Also, he indicated to us in the Q&A that Kevin is quite adept at balancing games...thus, the clock.  In the original game, Richard would have all of the players each have their respective Investigator perfom some function (Entrance-related purchase/treatment or Resolve an Adventure Card) and then have a Mythos Phase or the GOO would attack.  By introducing the clock mechanism, there's an increase in the tension, as not all of the investigators (with five or more in play) will have the opportunity to reolve an adventure or perform some Entrance-related function. 

Why is this important...the game is not intended for Vincent and Carolyn to heal themselves, potentially 4 times when battling the GOO.   If you're playing this game solo (or any other number of Investigators up to 4), each Investigator performs a function, and then the GOO attacks.  With 5 or more Investigators, each of the first four may attack...then the GOO, then 5, 6 etc.  That completely resolves the issue governing Vincent/Carolyn, especially for one investigator games.

I'll answer some of the more frequently asked questions from my time at the Event last week, as we had several very good playtesters, incluing the individual who was attempting to "break" the computer version.

 

Battling an Ancient One:

1. Can clues be used during the final battle?  Yes (it was our saving grace once or twice)

2. Unless otherwise stated on the card, can allies be used in the final battle? Yes 

3. Does each success lock the dice for that task just like a normal resolve adventure step?  Yes (which means you re-roll the remaining dice, attempting to get another successful "task" to remove a Doom Token)

4. Do dice locked on adventure cards, mythos cards, and monster cards remain locked when the final battle starts? Yes

 

Spells

1. If a spell is played, is it mandatory that a die be placed on the card or could you discard the spell?  Yes (According to the way we played when moderated by Richard, you had to place a die and not simply discard it)  If a spell has two dice icons, do you have to place two dice? Yes Could the two dice be placed one at a time on different task completion rolls? No (When you cast it you add the dice) Can clues be used to reroll dice are placed? Hmmm? (If I understand you correctly, you may use a Clue token, reroll those dice (or die), and then decide what's added to the Spell)

2. How is a monster defeated when using a spell? It is turned-over and the Investigator need not lose Sanity or Stamina (no costs) nor advance the clock, if necessary according to the "tasks." Can you immmediately claim the monster token?  No (You must wait until you succeed or fail the Adventure card) If it is a partial or total monster task, would you then have to complete the task as depicted on the card? Yes/No (You can defeat the monster and claim it if you fail the Adventure card, but you must complete the entire task on a partial task.  Remember a spell that defeats a mnster doesn't satisfy the entire requirement for a partial task.)

3. Are Spells cast before or after rolling the dice? Hmmm?  (Thanks Hudarklord, I believe I heard the same thing.  The intention ois to casrt it after you roll to make the selection)

Monsters

1. If all monster tasks are currently filled, can you keep placing all other monsters on one non monster task card making that card in effect a giant holding pen? No (This was one Richard was quite vocal about ~ it's not the designers' intention to have an impossible task)

2.  On an adventure card with an arrow, if a monster is added to the bottom of the card, does it become the last task? No (It is separate and distinct from the rest of the Adventure card)  Could the monster task be completed first or in any order the player chooses like an adventure card without an arrow? Yes

3.  If a spell says that it can defeat 1 monster, can it only defeat a monster on the adventure card that my investigator is on? Yes

4.  If I complete an adventure and get a monster as a "reward", does this monster have to go onto one of the other 5 cards or can it go onto the adventure that will replace the one that I have just completed? Yes (This one actually had two competing interpretations one of the five remaining OR one of the six, to include the recently placed Adventure Card)

Locked Dice

1.  If a red die for example is already locked on an adventure card and a second red locked die icon comes into play, does the red die immediately move to the second card when the the first card is resolved? Yes (The one playtester had an evil grin when he told us about that one)

2.  If the red and yellow dice are locked, can Gloria Goldberg use her Special Ability to resolve Other World Adventure Cards? No

3.  If the red and yellow dice are locked, can Jenny Barnes use her Special Ability to resolve adventures? No

4.  When the Great Old One wakes up do locked dice on adventure cards/monsters unlock? No

Investigators

1.  Some special abilities seem overpowered when playing with less than three or four investigators (Kate Winthrop, Carolyn Fern, Mandy Thompson and Vincent Lee). Is there some alternate definition of what constitutes a turn when playing with just one or two investigators when considering how often the special abilities can be used? (See first few paragraphs of this post)

2. Does Kate's ability work on the Mythos Cards? No (Monsters do appear, as part of the Mythos Card)
 

"At Midnight" Effects

1.  Do "at midnight" effects on adventure cards take effect at midnight even if no investigator is on a given Adventure card? Yes

2.  Do "at midnight" effects on Adventure cards continue to impact players after the Great Old One awakes? No 

3.  What happens if the clock moves to Midnight because of an effect on a monster task while you are in the middle of an adventure? (See full answer after the next question) Do you interrupt the adventure and deal with Midnight effects, lingering effects, and new Mythos Card? No (According to Richard, you DO NOT interrupt the flow of the turn. Simply resolve all of the effects after the turn is over)

Unresolved

1.  Is Mandy's ability really usable once on every turn, even when it's not her turn? Or is it just once per day? 

2.  What happens when the last Doom Token and the final Elder Sign needed to defeat Azathoth are gained at the same time? Does Azathoth awake and we lose, or do we win? Consensus: Benefits are derived on the card from left-to-right, with the Elder Sign (almost) always appearing before the Doom Token.

3..Can investigators use their Special Abilities during other players' turns? Consensus:  Generally, No...exception might be Mandy If only some can which ones and under which circumstances?

 

Hope that helps.

The Professor

 

Without Signature

Reply #35 | Published on 23 October 2011 - 20:46:13

That bit about battling the Ancient One is...interesting.  Certainly, I can see that how the two different visions of the game interact, but the question is which vision should be used.  As is, having all the investigators go once before the AO attacks, whether you have 1, 2, 3, or 4 players, is...not really balanced.  I guess the idea is that Vincent and Carolyn's abilities were holdovers from the old design system, but that still doesn't indicate how they should be handled.  Was the general indication that having all of the investigators attack and then the AO attack should be the general standard, or that it was just something that happened to be the standard partway through the design process?

What remains, it would seem, has no artistic significance.

Reply #36 | Published on 23 October 2011 - 21:09:15

As was mentioned in the Q&A, Richard provided an outstanding product (as always), and Kevin is quite adept at balancing, thus, the clock.  Otherwise, ever Investigator 6,7, even 8 Investigators would have a go at the GOO before it could react.  The clock mechanism works well in that scenario, but with 4 or less, I would simply exhaust each of the Investigator's turns as there's no Mythos to resolve.

Without Signature

Reply #37 | Published on 26 October 2011 - 12:52:00

I have many questions, but only one burning one: 

 

Have you (FFG) thought about hiring an editor that understands board game rules and can use the questions/issues brought up in play testing to rewrite the rulebook into something that isn't the butt of jokes on BGG?

Without signature

Reply #38 | Published on 26 October 2011 - 20:54:32
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tssfulk said:

I have many questions, but only one burning one: 

Have you (FFG) thought about hiring an editor that understands board game rules and can use the questions/issues brought up in play testing to rewrite the rulebook into something that isn't the butt of jokes on BGG?

I was thinking the same thing.

Without Signature
Reply #39 | Published on 28 October 2011 - 03:03:49

RE: Unresolved

1. Is Mandy's ability really usable once on every turn, even when it's not her turn? Or is it just once per day?

Well, having played several more games with Mandy Thompson, I haven't found her ability to be all that strong...it's completely consistent with the other Investigators' abilities such as Joe Diamond's use of Clues.  Does she help...yes, about 1 in three Investigators receive a positive result by re-rolling two dice.  As a special ability, she may certainly use it per round vice per day.

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Reply #40 | Published on 29 October 2011 - 05:38:47
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bioball said:


It means you can't by two at in the same turn. You buy one item, spell, or clue per turn. I think you are over thinking the phrase.

 

 

I personally play it as one item only, buying allies is always more useful in long run than anything else, so I want to limit their availability. And with a stock of 8 allies they'd run out very early with their low cost of 5, that's about 3 adventures with or without monsters.

Buying a single souvenir just sounds more logical to me, and it (kinda) solves the 'buying the last elder sign' issue thing too. Unfortunately it makes buying anything less than ally/elder sign pointless waste.

But you might be right too, maybe i'm overthinking it, maybe it's because english isn't my native language, but that "the player purchases 1 (and only 1) of the listed objects" on page 8 of the manual confuses me. I don't think there would've been room for misinterpretation if the "(and only 1)" wasn't there.

 

I just want some kind of official answer, is buying a souvenir limited to only once per game/investigator?

Weird that i'm the only one who've had this question, it has been bothering me ever since the rules were posted online. Maybe it was too obvious to others?

Without Signature

Reply #41 | Published on 29 October 2011 - 18:52:24
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I have a question for the FAQ regarding what was intended when the player uses more than one clue token to re-roll dice. Please can you confirm which one of the below scenarios was the intention.

Scenario 1

- After rolling the 6 green dice, I decide to use a clue token and re-roll 4 dice, setting aside the 2 dice I want to keep.

- I then decide to use another clue token to re-roll 2 of the 4 dice I just rerolled, setting aside again the 2 I want to keep. I now have 4 dice set aside.

- Re-roll the last 2 dice and add the result to the 4 set aside dice.

 

Scenario 2

- You roll 6 dice. The first clue token you use lets you re-roll any part of this roll. Let's say I re-roll 4 dice.

- The second clue token I use however only lets me re-roll the same 4 dice again - i.e a clue token only ever lets you re-roll part or all of your original roll. It is not possible to take 2 of the dice out from your first re-roll and create a sub-set of 2 dice which you can then re-roll.

What I am basically suggesting in this second scenario is that by "roll" the designer meant your first dice roll of 6 dice, and not the subsequent rolls you make for a clue token. This scenario would make clue tokens considerably less powerful than scenario one.

 

 

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Reply #42 | Published on 30 October 2011 - 18:43:08
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I agree with you here and this is how I read this / have been playing it. To me it's clear that you can only buy one souvenir in total on a given turn.

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Reply #43 | Published on 01 November 2011 - 14:25:08
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Jaroy said:

 

bioball said:


It means you can't by two at in the same turn. You buy one item, spell, or clue per turn. I think you are over thinking the phrase.

 

 

 

 

 

I personally play it as one item only, buying allies is always more useful in long run than anything else, so I want to limit their availability. And with a stock of 8 allies they'd run out very early with their low cost of 5, that's about 3 adventures with or without monsters.

Buying a single souvenir just sounds more logical to me, and it (kinda) solves the 'buying the last elder sign' issue thing too. Unfortunately it makes buying anything less than ally/elder sign pointless waste.

But you might be right too, maybe i'm overthinking it, maybe it's because english isn't my native language, but that "the player purchases 1 (and only 1) of the listed objects" on page 8 of the manual confuses me. I don't think there would've been room for misinterpretation if the "(and only 1)" wasn't there.

 

I just want some kind of official answer, is buying a souvenir limited to only once per game/investigator?

Weird that i'm the only one who've had this question, it has been bothering me ever since the rules were posted online. Maybe it was too obvious to others?

 

 

Elder Signs Omens on iPad / iPhone agrees with us - you can only buy 1 item per turn in total.

I think we can consider this question closed - in any case it was pretty clear in the beginning what was meant - no offense but it's the English language.

You Shall Not Pass

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Reply #44 | Published on 01 November 2011 - 15:22:09
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Ohnomycocoa said:

 

Elder Signs Omens on iPad / iPhone agrees with us - you can only buy 1 item per turn in total.

 

 

Yes, but I never meant you could buy more than one item per turn. I meant that you could buy one item. rest of the game you may not buy any more items.

Without Signature

Reply #45 | Published on 02 November 2011 - 05:06:32
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Oh I see...well that would be crazily difficult..but a good variant if you want a harder game.

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