agree about them nailing the starks  and as for daeneys i imagine i wouldnt be happy with anyone for the role.

i guess my problem with Cersei is that shes not the image of beauty i imagined, i by no means am saying the actress isn't beautiful   but i imagined a more Nicole Kidman (when she could still make facial expressions) ish look to cersei

jack merridew said:

A pity Nicole Kidman can't act, though ;)

it is a pity. . . . although i did dig her in days of thunder,  but you see what i mean about nicole kidman?  shes more gracious looking,  she looks like royalty and manipulative at the same time.  but again im some fanboy with a certain idea in my head  either way this series is going to deliver for me and for that im thankful

Ya know I just thought of someone who I personally would have liked as Cersei: Naomi Watts. No big deal really and she is more a straight movie actress than someone for a 7 season long TV show, but she is probably my favorite blond actress :)

My review of the first episode: Yawn. I can't imagine this series generating substantial viewership beyond fans of the novels. It just seemed so very dull.

Another thing: for all the much vaunted spending of resources on art direction, I think they failed at least with Winterfell. Yes, there is a grimness, but where is the beauty? They made Winterfell look like a pig farm. There should have been much more white in the color palette. Everyone looked too sweaty and dirty. These are the Starks we're talking about.There should be a degree of pristine dignity. Oh, and Catelyn isn't pretty enough.

Tyrion and Jaime were good.

JackT said:

Joffrey! - Cruel and Abusive for no apparent reason.  Cersei (and Viserys etc.) does some pretty vile things, but we're shown the thought process behind it, even if it's as shallow as "i''l do whatever it takes to..."

 i really liked the first episode, maybe i was blinded due to my feelings about the novels.

The actress playing Cersei played the queen on 300, I'm willing to give her a chance.

I remember first reading the book, and thinking "ugh, this is BOOOOORRRRRRING..." until I got to "the things I do for love."  Then it was almost nonstop.  I'm glad they got through the majority of the introductions/booooooorrrring stuff in the first episode, as it really does pick up after "the things i do for love."

Newb View of the show.  Haven't read the books, haven't played the games...although after seeing the first episode, I looked over the card database to see how the artists drew the characters.

I like it!  Mostly because there are SO MANY characters to follow--I love HUGE ensembles, especially when they all seem to be top-notch--and the visual direction of the show is SPECTACULAR.  Definitely going to stick with it, especially if it really does "pick up" after that gasper of a cliffhanger.  If I like the "boring" parts this much, I am apparently the "mainstream idiot" the creators are targeting: "Hey...maybe you should try the books too..."

Just gonna throw out a random array of thoughts to amuse you grognards who know so much more than I do.  (PLEASE don't tell me what's going to happen!)

House Stark feels like "nobles in exile."  Family is everything...because that's all the North freakin' has!  So Ned and Robert took the throne from the Targaryens, but Robert gets the cushy lush central regions, and Ned gets shoved off to guard the Wall?  Feels like the short end of the stick.  On the other hand, perhaps Ned chose to bail as far away from the throne as possible, considering how insidious everyone close to it seems to be.

Not sure how I feel about the Wall and the things beyond, but time will tell if and when they become an actual issue.  The whole "Winter is coming" thing seems to be pretty ominous about it.  But I do appreciate the SEVERITY that the Wall inflicts upon the world, especially, "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword."  Strict but noble.

LOVE Sean Bean.  Couldn't get enough of him as Boromir; his "smothered hero" Ned should scratch that itch.  Digging Catelin as well.  ADORE Arya!!!  Jon Snow fascinates me; bastardization is raised to an art form in this world.  Loved that he got the "runt" of the dire wolf litter.  Bran's climbing made me laugh...well, until...

The Lannisters are...just WOW.  They're not so much evil as they are heartless.  Jaime's like a Bond villain: always pretty, always smiling, always asshole.  Of course, that makes him equally compelling to watch.  And I think Lena Headey is perfectly capable of matching Jaime's ruthlessness as Cersei; just you wait and see.  (Incest?  Really?  And not just incest...ENTHUSIASTIC incest!)  Peter Dinklage is FANTASTIC in anything he does; the fact that Tyrion's actually a dwarf (and written that way) just gets all of that "does he look right?" crap out of the way of him being able to act what I think could be the smartest person in this entire entourage.  His little bout with HBO's gratuitousness was a terrific tension breaker, and his exchange with Snow really laid out what must be Tyrion's long-layered wall of bitterness underneath all that wit.

House Targaryen.  Love the change in scenery!  (Malta vs. Belfast, I discovered.)  The exiled prince trying to get back his throne by "selling" his sister to a ready-made army of savages.  What a creep.  And an seriously unbalanced creep too.  Viserys scares me because I really don't know what he's capable of yet.  He screams "utterly detached cruelty" to me, and I don't know how badly that will go for Daenerys, who is LOVELY (yes yes, gratuitousness aside, she's still WOW).  SO unprepared for the life she's been tossed at, and her face wears every frightened thought in her head.  On the other hand, I can't deny the appeal of the virgin princess broken (or remade?) by...Klingons?  Mongols?  Klingon Mongols?  The Dothraki are NIFTY.  (MAJOR kudos for creating the Dothraki language!!!)  Can't wait to see more of their society.

WANT DRAGON EGG!!!

King Baratheon...I love Mark Addy, but Robert seems like a bit of a wuss.  He's king of everything, but they make him look like a chicken in a pit of vipers.  "Eek!  They're coming after me!  I can't trust anyone!  Ned!  Save me!"  Makes me wonder how the Targaryen Deposing actually went down, and if Stark was really the alligator to Baratheon's chicken.  Must uncover more about the death of Ned's sister!  And the rise of Cersei: I'm so ready to blame the Lannisters for just about everything.

Flipping through FFG cards and a few unspoilery websites, I'm a bit stunned by how many Houses there are.  (Shades of Frank Herbert's Dune.)  And it makes me curious why the card game chose the Greyjoys (Kraken) and the Martels (Sun) as "factions", considering how much closer the action seems to be to the Arryns and the Tullys.

Okay, that's enough.  Glad I chose to stick with HBO and this, instead of second-guessing myself and flipping over to Starz for Camelot.  King Arthur can wait.

jgt7771 said:

You couldn't be further off. The Starks are from the North, have been for thousands of years since the House was founded, it's where they belong. Ned feels uncomfortable anywhere else, and he wouldn't have left if it was for his loyalty to Robert (if you only know the tv show) or Catelyn's insistence that he go to King's Landing (if you read the books). Catelyn may not be quite at home in the North, being born further south in the Riverlands, and Sansa is just spoiled and dreams of a pretty life at court.

As for Robert being a wuss, he has a warrior's heart and used to be a ferocious fighter. He's just helpless against all the Intrigue challenges, he's missing the appropriate icon.

Saturnine said:

Which is why HBO could have done a better job developing the characters/telling the story.  Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the show, but there was too much undeveloped information for newcomers.  Hopefully the upcoming episodes will do the novels more justice. 

Background Perspective: I haven't read the books, I haven't played the games.  Minor broad Internet research (geography, House names, etc.)  All I really know is the show, and what the show will give me.

Episode 2 Random Musings

I get that I had underestimated Eddard Stark as being "shoved off" to the North.  House Stark has always been in the North, and always safeguarded the Wall (although perhaps not BUILT the Wall).  But his family still means a great deal to him: so much so that he loves Jon Snow, even though Catelin hasn't forgiven for that for two decades now.  (That was a SHARP moment: "I want you...TO LEAVE."  First time I saw any fire in Catelin, and it was kinda ugly.)  I fear that his love for his family versus his duty to his King is going to tear him apart.

As for that King, Robert is not acquiring any sympathy from me.  "He's just helpless against all the Intrigue challenges, he's missing the appropriate icon."  (Great chuckle, Saturnine! )  And that's all I'm seeing: sure, he's got some great war stories, and apparently he's bedded down half the wenches in King's Landing, but unless he whips out his sword and proves he's still got some of that bear in him, he's gonna keep showing up to WITHER in front of that oppressive wave of dominance from his nasty wife.

However, I am intrigued by his and Eddard's views on the Targaryens.  Stark is somewhat angrily dismissive--the Targaryens are no threat so long as the Dothraki can't cross the sea--and seems most inclined to just drop it and keep it behind him.  Whereas Baratheon is the one that wants to walk over there and throttle Viserys himself.  How he took Lyanna's death so hard, and still wound up with that witch Cersei baffles me...but I suspect it has everything to do with "royal rules", and the political prowess of House Lannister.

It would seem Daenerys is determined to stand in her forced marriage (rather than cry in a corner), and I am delighted to watch that journey.  If the girl-on-girl "tutoring" wasn't enough, fighting for some eye-to-eye sex with Drogo was SMOLDERING.  Love her new tribal look, makes her uniquely blonde hair even brighter.  (Wonder what her baby would look like, should there be one.)  The story seems to go out of its way to keep reminding us about the dragons (as her eggs have become Daenerys' "safe place"); are them eggs really petrified?  Are the dragons really gone?  Dragons and horselords would make for one hell of a mainland invasion...

It's easy enough to find a map of the Seven Kingdoms, but it's not clear how big the Dothraki continent across the Narrow Sea is.  The fact that it's not listed anywhere I can find likely means it really isn't that important.

Joffrey is a bully and a coward (and Robert freakin' knows it too), and I adore Arya even more for getting the upper hand on him.  I wonder if Sansa is playing by the same "royal rules" Robert keeps hiding behind when she didn't come forward against Joffrey's BS.  I fear a rift has cracked between the Stark sisters, sounded by Lady's snapped neck.  NOT COOL.  Anyone still worried Lena Headey won't make a good Cersei?

Eddard kinda tossed out a name for Jon's mother, but that wasn't convincing at all.  And Jon Snow keeps bumping into Lannisters: first Jaime for a passive aggressive taunting, now Tyrion is his riding companion.  Reeeeeeally curious what the hell Stark did during that year away from home.  (If Jon is a Lannister, and Catelin knows about it...hoo boy, no wonder she hates him.)  More convinced than ever that Tyrion is the smartest guy in the realm, and Dinklage is doing an awesome job with all of Tyrion's half-amused facial tics at Jon's blatant barbs.  It doesn't look like the Night Watch has much of a reputation anymore, if its ranks are now being filled by "those who can't get out of it."

Hee hee!  Bran ain't dead!  And...YIKES!  Bran ain't dead AGAIN!  (Go Summer!)  Bad news for the Lannisters...if there were anyone around left to tell!  Am I right in thinking that the only Starks left in Winterfell are Robb and Rickon?

Still so many other characters that may or may not be important (but I kinda get the feeling that George R. R. Martin's method is that there are NO "minor" characters...just characters who aren't major YET).  The Queen's Executioner.  Jorah Mormont.  Theon Greyjoy.  I suspect there is a great deal of potential cannon fodder all over the place.

A final shout-out to a FANTASTIC opening credit sequence.  At first, I was just dazzled by the truly nifty "clockwork" erections of major points of interest, but now I see that each one is specifically highlighting the important locations of THAT EPISODE.  While I was waiting to watch Pentos arise again, I was surpised to see the tiny huts of the Dothraki spin up instead.  Clever, clever HBO: now I'm dying to see how they clockwork the Eyrie (or a dozen other places I don't know are important yet...although from the card game, I suspect the Iron Islands and Sunspear).

jgt7771 said:

That was nothing :)    In the book she's like "It should have been you!"

jgt7771 said:

The reason is that for whatever reason, there's no official maps of the whole of Essos (the continent east of Westeros) in the books. There's some guesstimated maps out there. In the third book there's map of a small part of the continent, but it doesn't tell you where exactly it is in relation to Westeros.

jgt7771 said:

Indeed.

jgt7771 said:

And Bran. Those three, yes.

jgt7771 said:

Hehe. Not far off :)

jgt7771 said:

I'm not a fan of the opening titles, but I'm getting used to it already (I really disliked it after the first episode). I read an interview with the creators of the sequence. Apparently they made five different versions. And I don't think I'm spoiling too much when I tell you the Iron Islands and Dorne/Sunspear are not relevant in the first book/season. Or to put it in game terms again: the expansion boxes haven't come out yet ;)

 By the way, I hope you keep posting, jgt, it's really interesting to read the impressions of someone unfamiliar with the books.

Saturnine said:

Agree.  Please keep posting JGT, it's very interesting to hear the thoughts of someone who hasn't read the books or played the game.  I especially like reading your theories/guesses as to what's to come (& I'll be sure not to comment on the accuracy of any of your theories).  

Background Perspective: I haven't read the books, I haven't played the games. Minor broad Internet research, although I'm doing a lot more IMDB-face-to-Westeros-name connections because >whew< almost too many names to know.

Episode 3 Randomites

Let's just get the Targaryens out of the way, since so far they are almost a completely separate story (which is kind of relaxing, really, to not have to try to tie them into the knot of the rest of the cast). There are a few threads blowing in the wind (mostly Mad King history), judiciously reminding us that the Targaryens are still in this...stay tuned.

Here I thought the Targaryen story was about unbalanced Viserys taking back his throne, but inside of three episodes, he's been shoved to the side as more minor than anticipated. No, the Targaryen story is about the rise of Khaleesi Daenerys. I love how easy it is to spot her in a herd of Dothraki: her hair just hyperbeams out. She is getting stronger: standing up to Drogo, standing up to her brother, the horde easily falling into her command...while Viserys keeps whining about how uncooperative the Dothraki are, Daenerys is BECOMING one of them, and excelling at it. Very cute as she learns the language, and (time passes quickly) chats with Drogo lounging upon him. It would seem I may yet get to see the offspring of Daenerys and Drogo.

Now there is one other thing here on the eastern continent: Jorah Mormont. It almost seemed a throwaway moment (if one wasn't paying attention) that the Commander of the Night Watch is also named Mormont. Jorah claims he betrayed his father, and now he's across the sea. If one betrays the Night Watch, that's a DEATH sentence, and it is common among people with that kind of stigma that they leave the country that wants them dead. So I’m thinking that Jorah was Night Watch under his father, then bailed out for some reason, and joined Stark’s greatest enemy. Although…he seemed pretty shaken when Daenerys’ pregnancy got out, and suddenly had somewhere else to be. So I suppose he could be a merc-narc for just about anyone who wants to keep tabs on the Targaryens…which narrows it down to probably just about anyone in Westeros.

Back on the mainland, Eddard is soooo out of place. (LOVED his glare when that buffoon asked him if he wanted to change.) The contrast between his rough shagginess and dark clothes and Jaime’s gleaming face and armor is like an antimatter explosion. Everything out of Jaime’s mouth is a coated barb, even when discussing how he (everyone) watched Stark’s father die (burned alive???), but I love how Stark never really takes the bait, instead trying to parry back (dug the implication that Jaime only fights opponents he knows he can beat, i.e. the wussiest). But I don’t think Stark is winning these exchanges with Jaime: Lannisters are too good at disguised insults.

The Iron Throne is reeeeeally nifty.

And then Stark is shackled to a small cabinet of idiots…er, King’s Advisors. Oh, perhaps I’m not being fair, but these guys stink of today’s Republicans: the status quo is the status quo…wait, you want to change it? Well, we’ll look into that, we will, we will, sure. They collectively make Robert look pretty bad at state management, and I’m not sure I would disagree…

Petyr Littlefinger is a smarmy weasel who speaks out of the corners of his mouth. There’s a history there, probably more with the Tullys than the Starks, and although Catelyn buys his blather, he feels way too much like the ex who hangs around your girlfriend, waiting for you to screw up so he can swoop in. And this is the State Treasurer? All that malarkey about Tyrion’s dagger? DO NOT TRUST.

Varys knows much, speaks little. He seems good at gathering information, but reticent at disseminating it. A perfectly untrustworthy Intelligence Broker.

Grand Maester Pycelle is old, but there’s some small note that he was once just as Machiavellian as the rest of them, but is either too old to play anymore, or is using his age as a tactic.

I can’t get too much of a bead on Renly, although he might have more Baratheon fire than his brother.

Speaking of Robert…I still can’t figure him out (testament to Mark Addy for wringing some sympathy out of such a drunken jerk). His “war stories” ramble wasn’t really endearing, but seeing how he’s surrounded by an entire court who has no respect for him (and he knows it), it’s either tragic or pathetic (I’m still trying to decide). I totally didn’t appreciate his treatment of Lancel (Son of Cersei? Cousin?); he’s obviously fed up with Lannisters, but when he tries to pick fights with adult ones, he ends up “losing” (Jaime’s “burn them all” shut Robert down), so instead he rags on the kids? No wonder his Knight Commander looks so indifferent about him.

Lots of history. Mad King Targaryen torched Stark’s father and brother (on a whim?) while Jaime watched. This seemed to be some kind of catalyst for some “nation cleansing”: “Burn them all.” Not clear of the timeline, but Eddard’s sister ended up dead, and thus begat Robert’s uprising, and somewhere in there, Jaime took out the Mad King from behind. Loved how these tidbits were delivered adversarily: Jaime vs. Eddard, Jaime vs. Robert. (Jaime won both times.)

“Anyone who is not us is an enemy.” Yikes. Cersei is a political steamroller, and she’s not going to stop until the Lannisters, and ONLY the Lannisters, have the throne. The problem is, Joffrey is an over-privileged twit, and I wouldn’t trust him with the competence to carry out Mommy’s plans. I’m kinda hoping Arya stabs him in the face…with the pointy end.

Arya is still so very adorable. She so wants to be better at “knighthood” than she is, but there’s a little bit of fear that Daddy will never understand. I think that Eddard is figuring out that this is who Arya is, especially after she proclaims her sword is “Needle”. Even though he’s not too happy about it, if he tried to force her from her path, she’s just going to look elsewhere for it…and around King’s Landing, that would likely mean pain, or worse. Better she learn to protect herself. So enter Syrio, this Master Duelist Jester. He’s a HOOT. After his “water” anology, he now reminds me of Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop) but with a more flamboyant sense of humor. I LOVED watching Arya’s face go from confusion to elation as it dawned on her that she was actually learning to fight, but tempered with Eddard’s face darkening with the hard truth that now his youngest daughter is part of his history of violence. (At least that’s what all the war sounds felt like. Flashback…or foreshadowing? Probably both.)

And finally, back to the Wall: lots of little things. Jon’s deceleration of pride, from “I’m better than them!” to “Here’s what I know.” Maybe I missed it, but Jon was SENT here by his father; he didn’t seem to have any more choice than his sorry cadetmates. It really kinda sucks to be Jon Snow.

Benjen as First Ranger, spending long stretches of time in the wilderness: what makes a man want to do that? Is he really that into his duty and commitment? I think it has more to do with firsthand knowledge of the white walkers, and what happens if the Night Watch fails. Still…lonely man.

The Night Watch actually reminds me of where I work. Before I was hired, there was a budgetary “hiring freeze” that lasted 7-8 years. So when I got here, all that was left were the old farts that couldn’t afford to retire and a gaggle of student interns. What a mess of a border guard. Something will go very very very wrong at the Wall, I’m almost sure of it.

LOVE the set design, though. The huge elevator, the freezing ramparts, the rickety barracks. Feels kinda like a prison that was made out of a legendary old fortress. (Alcatrazy.)

Tyrion is just a blast. “Do you think I’m plump?” He is way too smart and aware to not have his own agenda, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what it is. He seems unconvinced that the northern beasts exist (or at least in numbers that matter), but he also has a great concern for Jon’s well-being. (Very interested in the “kindred spirits” respect between Tyrion and Jon.) Did he really come to the Wall to just piss off it? I don’t believe he has any interest in advancing his family’s schemes; they don’t like him, and he seems to use his name only as a “press pass” for luxury. (“Better to be a rich cripple.”) And now he’s walking right back into Jaime’s alibi.

Poor Bran. “I’d rather be dead.” SOBERING.  Do the white walkers really have giant spiders?  Let's put that on the list of "things I want to see" under "dragons".