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N0-1_H3r3 said:
venkelos said:
The Custodes are genetically engineered, but they represent a different approach to supersoldiers than the Astartes.
As I understand it, there were four distinct phases to the Emperor's development of posthuman warriors.
Stage 1 is the Thunder Warriors, the beings who helped the Emperor reconquer Terra at the very start of the Reunification. By the time the Great Crusade began, the Thunder Warriors were essentially extinct. Thunder Warriors were individually enhanced super-soldiers, wielding early forms of bolter and power armour (the Mk1 "Thunder" armour).
Stage 2 is the Custodian Guard. Like the Thunder Warriors before them, they are individually enhanced, each one the product of incredible mastery of genetic science. Unlike the Thunder Warriors, however, the Custodians are designed to last, and each one represents the very pinnacle of that particular approach to genetic enhancement. Each is armed with the finest wargear, each is trained to be a superlative warrior, and each is perfectly loyal to the Emperor above all others - no bonds of brotherhood exist to conflict their loyalties. They are, however, not an army, and they are too time-consuming and difficult to make to serve as the Emperor's legions in the Great Crusade.
Stage 3 is the Primarchs. Rather than beginning with existing individuals and enhancing them, the Emperor begins from scratch, manipulating his own genes and merging with that his psychic prowess and a variety of other arcane methods, to create twenty godlike superhuman beings, each one distinct from the others but all of them magnificent. No mortal man has ever or will ever be as swift of mind or mighty of body as the Primarchs are.
Stage 4 is the Adeptus Astartes. With the loss of the Primarchs, the Emperor took remnants of their genetics and created geneseed - organs which can be surgically implanted into a compatible human being to turn them into a super-soldier. Though not as puissant as the Custodian Guard, the geneseed could be implanted by any sufficiently-trained individual, and would in turn provide the means to produce more warriors using the same genetic template. This allowed them to be the legions the Emperor required, and he set about creating a single legion of warriors from each Primarch's genetics.
Now, while we know that the Astartes age, though far slower than humans, we don't know if this is the case for the Adeptus Custodes, who were hand-made genetic masterpieces that pre-date even the Primarchs. It may possibly be that the Custodes who guard the Emperor to this day were the exact same warriors who survived the Siege of Terra in the early 31st Millennium. It may even be that the Captain of the Custodes who visited Alicia Dominica at the height of Vandire's Reign of Blood was Chief Custodian Constantin Valdor, a man who witnessed the birth of the Imperium.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes
If I was to make a custodes I would have to start at character creation. Most costodes are really old so you would need to add a lot more than just 1k exp. If each one is the equivilent of a space marine captain they should probably start with something along the lines of 12k exp to bring them to rank 4 and maybe a little extra to buy some rank 4 abilities. Custodes should be the best equipped I think with Hero level wargear. They will need their own advancement charts tailored around them as I guess they don't have specializations. One idea I have is giving them Sisters of Battle like abilities. For being tailor-made genetic warriors they probably should have higher stats, +5 to everything I don't think is unreasonable showing they are just a little better then normal space marines when it comes to physical and mental abilities. I would consider lowering their Fellowship as they are not loyal to anyone except the Emperor, -10 most likely maybe more. All of this is theorycrafting.
Space Marines will have the advantage in groups. They are trained to work as a group and get the benefit of squad mode. They also have the black carapace and power armor.
Space Marine-Viking-Wizard. Your argument is invalid.
Decessor said:
I'd disagree on "the same logic". Custodes always struck me as utterly loyal without being outright fanatics. They don't need to have faith in a god, they just have to guard him.
Possibly, but we can also think of it this way. If we're going to compare badassery by throwing your average astartes in a fight with your average custodes, look at it like this: The space marine is clad in powered armour rivaling small tanks and armed with an automatic rocket grenade launcher. The custodes has a spear and isn't even wearing a shirt. If action movies has taught us anything, the space marine would only stand less of chance if he was going up against a small, unarmed, elderly asian man. ;)
Without Sanity
Penpen said:
Possibly, but we can also think of it this way. If we're going to compare badassery by throwing your average astartes in a fight with your average custodes, look at it like this: The space marine is clad in powered armour rivaling small tanks and armed with an automatic rocket grenade launcher. The custodes has a spear and isn't even wearing a shirt. If action movies has taught us anything, the space marine would only stand less of chance if he was going up against a small, unarmed, elderly asian man. ;)
The Custodes are armed with a spear with an automatic rocket grenade launcher on the end.
ItsUncertainWho said:
Penpen said:
Possibly, but we can also think of it this way. If we're going to compare badassery by throwing your average astartes in a fight with your average custodes, look at it like this: The space marine is clad in powered armour rivaling small tanks and armed with an automatic rocket grenade launcher. The custodes has a spear and isn't even wearing a shirt. If action movies has taught us anything, the space marine would only stand less of chance if he was going up against a small, unarmed, elderly asian man. ;)
The Custodes are armed with a spear with an automatic rocket grenade launcher on the end.
…aaaand you completely missed the point.
Without Sanity
Penpen said:
ItsUncertainWho said:
Penpen said:
Possibly, but we can also think of it this way. If we're going to compare badassery by throwing your average astartes in a fight with your average custodes, look at it like this: The space marine is clad in powered armour rivaling small tanks and armed with an automatic rocket grenade launcher. The custodes has a spear and isn't even wearing a shirt. If action movies has taught us anything, the space marine would only stand less of chance if he was going up against a small, unarmed, elderly asian man. ;)
The Custodes are armed with a spear with an automatic rocket grenade launcher on the end.
…aaaand you completely missed the point.
The point being that looks are deceiving. Custodes used to be resplendant in their glorious golden armour and red plumed helmets. They were an ever present force wherever the Emperor was to make it clear that he cannot be got at, hurt or killed. Their failure to protect Him during the Heresy led to their change to funerary blacks and reds and removal of their armour. However their role as guardians of the Emperor means they are still armed, likely just as armoured through the use of forcefields and other devices and still just as brutal in combat.
If you've read any of the Horus Heresy novels you'll know that it took entire squads of Astartes to take down even a single Custodes and quite often it was only the 'special character' marines that could pull this off.
"Only the insane have the strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane."
For Custodes stats after a quick look to Honor the chapter I think that you can use the Legion of the Dmaned stats block to give life to custodes with maybe a Fel bonus.
By Guilliman and the Holly Codex! Courage and honnor Brothers!
I was thinking of just using the 'Deathwatch Keeper' Speciality with a few equipment tweeks.
<scrap.shunt.error>
Well, even if I am kinda late with my response Ill gie it a try.
To say they have abandoned their gear is kinda problematic because you refer to Rogue Trader Ed. 1, an Edtion nearly everything from has been altered. Though it is a nice sign of devotion I hardly disagree with the Idea that they have abandoned their gear when it comes to combat. I look at them like the swiss guard of the vatican state. They wear their fancy uniforms without their breatplates but when it comes to war they wear their real gear (which makes today no sense^^) So for their status as a Guard a black uniform and a helmet that hides their identity as a result of "shame" is realy nice. But when they fight I would never doubt that they would enter their armorys and bring their old glory back. Also their helmets are discribed as the pinacle of technology. Atleast I would expect a force field with the strengh of at least an iron halo integrated in it, also some sensor arrays like the Ultra Marines Relic has, dunno its name atm. Their armor would be either Artificer or Terminator gear with at least two aditionals armor historys that might be even chosen freely because every custodian recieves only the armor that is suited the best for him. (Maybe even use the armor of the remorseless crusader) They issue relics as other chapters issue standard ordonance bolters.
The staline is realy difficult. There are sources that discribe them as superior to an astartes, as an astartes would be to the average guardsman. And this refers to their combat style. They are not wolves like the Astartes that fight together, but they are Lions that fight alone. Keep any squad ability away from them and give them nice solo mode abilitys that allow them to fight one on one and against hordes. On the other hand increase their statline by 5-10 per attribute and increase their unnatural strenght and toughness by an additional multiplier. They are unique made superhumans, the best of the best. The astartes are the angels of death, the custodes are death incarnate.
As a weapon I would give them only master crafted gear with all kinds of equipment that would be usefull. I would handle their Custodian spear as a relic blade without much change (Or an executioner axe without the unwieldy but un unbalanced). The integrated bolter should only use special issue ammunition and could adapt the Furious Vengeance Relic Bolter Rules. Their backup swords would be great as "The Shadow in the Sky".
For their Skills/Talents dont give them any restrictions. They can learn what they need for their tasks, they have the time and the masters. Their XP should be arranged to match with an Deathwatch "Hero".
I know this would create crazy powerfull individuals. But lets be honest. They are crazy powerfull. Constantin Valdor, the Chief Costodian, was able to defeat Horus Lupercal (Before he recieved his chaos gifts) in a sparring match, a friggin primarch. Also Valdor saved the Emperors life numerous times. The Custodians are the peak of the genetical engeneering that has been invented by the emperor of mankind. They are the absolute elite. They are tasked to defend terra and the emperor, they have the best wargear of the entire empire if they need it and chances are very likely that a lot of them are actual veterans of the heresy itsself. It could even be that Valdor still stands guard in the golden throne.
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