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Moderator: FFGAntonThe Spaniard Topics: 970 | Posts: 8233
Simutaneous use of active solo modes and squad modes
Published on 10 October 2012 - 11:09:36
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Is this possible?

Per RoB, an Active Solo Mode can be used in Squad Mode at a cost of 1 Cohesion.

Does this mean as well that you can use a Solo Mode ability and a Squad Mode ability at the same time? If so, do their effects stack? Say, combine Siege Master and Dig In (which would triple cover)?

In addition, if you use a Solo Mode like Siege Master (which is Active, but always on), do you pay the 1 Cohesion to use it in Squad Mode once per session, once per battle, ot once per round?

(Also, have we even gotten a conclusive answer on whether Size affects WS, or only BS?)

 
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Reply #1 | Published on 10 October 2012 - 07:22:58
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bogi_khaosa said:

Is this possible?

Per RoB, an Active Solo Mode can be used in Squad Mode at a cost of 1 Cohesion.

1. Does this mean as well that you can use a Solo Mode ability and a Squad Mode ability at the same time? If so, do their effects stack? Say, combine Siege Master and Dig In (which would triple cover)?

2. In addition, if you use a Solo Mode like Siege Master (which is Active, but always on), do you pay the 1 Cohesion to use it in Squad Mode once per session, once per battle, ot once per round?

3. (Also, have we even gotten a conclusive answer on whether Size affects WS, or only BS?)

1. Dunno off the top of my head, I'd say yes sometimes and no sometimes. GMs should use their common sense. In your example theres only so much defensive value a marine can get from a pane of glass or a sheet of plywood. I don't think any combinations could ever make something like that as good as a concrete divider.

2. Actually pretty complicated. There is some evidence it might not be an "always on" ability (entry says the marine must remain stationary to use it and it is an Active ability). It is also not a Passive ability (which may be used freely in squad mode) and states it works when in solo mode. If it can be used in squad mode it would incur a 1 cohesion cost (since it is Active). Either way, if my battle brother continuously wasted cohesion just to protect himself I'd not be too pleased with him.

3. Yes, for a while now. Size modifiers only affect ranged attacks as confirmed by FFG rules persons. I can provide a copy-paste of the e-mail from them if you really need it.

Without Signature
Reply #2 | Published on 10 October 2012 - 08:37:30

bogi_khaosa said:

Is this possible?

Per RoB, an Active Solo Mode can be used in Squad Mode at a cost of 1 Cohesion.

Does this mean as well that you can use a Solo Mode ability and a Squad Mode ability at the same time? If so, do their effects stack? Say, combine Siege Master and Dig In (which would triple cover)?

In addition, if you use a Solo Mode like Siege Master (which is Active, but always on), do you pay the 1 Cohesion to use it in Squad Mode once per session, once per battle, ot once per round?

(Also, have we even gotten a conclusive answer on whether Size affects WS, or only BS?)

Generally, a SM can only benefit from ONE squad mode ability at the time (even if more than one are active and sustained by the Kill Team). I would interpret that he can chose to use a Solo Mode ability INSTEAD of a benefiting from a Squad Mode ability. So, in your example, I would make the character choose between the two. Essentially, he'd be using a Solo ability AS a Squad ability (ie: spending cohesion), hence why I'd make him choose.

I know that RoB allows a PC to spend cohesion on individual Solo abilities, but Cohesion is supposed to be about teamwork. As bogi_khaosa said, spending on SOlo abilties too often won't make the kill team happy. It should really be reserved for those desperate situations where no other options exist.

 

 

"These our actors, / As I foretold you, were all spirits,/ Are melted into air, into thin air, / And, like the baseless fabric of vision, / The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, / The solemn temples, the great globe itself, / Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve / And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, / Leave not a rack behind." Shakespeare's The Tempest, IV.1

 

Get your Bard on at the Bard Brawl!  

Reply #3 | Published on 10 October 2012 - 12:25:46

Macharias the Mendicant said:

Generally, a SM can only benefit from ONE squad mode ability at the time (even if more than one are active and sustained by the Kill Team). I would interpret that he can chose to use a Solo Mode ability INSTEAD of a benefiting from a Squad Mode ability. So, in your example, I would make the character choose between the two. Essentially, he'd be using a Solo ability AS a Squad ability (ie: spending cohesion), hence why I'd make him choose.

I know that RoB allows a PC to spend cohesion on individual Solo abilities, but Cohesion is supposed to be about teamwork. As bogi_khaosa said, spending on SOlo abilties too often won't make the kill team happy. It should really be reserved for those desperate situations where no other options exist.

  

RAW, to me, indicate that one could benefit from both solo mode and squad mode abilities- the rules only say that you can activate a solo mode ability at the cost of cohesion, but I can't find any reference that says you can benefit from one or the other, just that you can't benefit from more than one _squad_ mode ability at the same time.

RAI, on the other hand, appears to me to be a clear case of only allowing the Marine to benefit from one 'special ability' at a time- thematically as well as balance-wise. 

In my games, I only allow players to benefit from one or the other, never both.  If you want to use Feat of Strength while the rest of your squad uses Fire for Effect, go for it- it'll cost you cohesion and you can do one or the other, not both.  That would also mean the subsequent turns, while Feat of Strength is still active, you can't benefit from any other Squad Mode abilities that have been called or are being sustained.

As for activation cost and keeping things active- it depends on the ability.  In the case of Siege Master, based on the entry description, I'd let the player spend the cohesion to activate it, and they could maintain it so long as they remain stationary.  They could even alternate turns as to which ability they benefitted from (squad mode versus solo mode) if applicable, but in a given turn they could only reap the benefits of one ability.  As soon as they move, it turns off and if they wished to activate it again, while in squad mode, they would need to spend the cohesion again.

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Reply #4 | Published on 10 October 2012 - 16:36:38
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 I have gotten a conflicting rules answer about size modifiers saying it works for both ranged and melee. I may have been asking about BC but since the descriptions are copy/pasted it should be the same for both. I'll have to check that email account when I get home.

As for squad/solo We have been allowing the single squad mode and single solo mode simultaneously and it hasn't caused any headaches. You do burn through the cohesion faster but that's the trade off.

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Reply #5 | Published on 10 October 2012 - 16:56:35

Nathiel said:

I have gotten a conflicting rules answer about size modifiers saying it works for both ranged and melee. I may have been asking about BC but since the descriptions are copy/pasted it should be the same for both. I'll have to check that email account when I get home.

As for squad/solo We have been allowing the single squad mode and single solo mode simultaneously and it hasn't caused any headaches. You do burn through the cohesion faster but that's the trade off.

I simply go by the book, which only talks about to hit bonuses when speaking about ranged, but we've seen some conflicting clarification emails in recent history, makes me think they're a touch overworked :)

For Squad/Solo, my players will milk any advantage out of any rule they can- even if you disregard the Black Templar or Blood Angel combos of GM destruction, simply combining things like a power fist, feat of strength, and furious charge can have ridiculous outcomes.  I don't personally like my games quite that over the top so for me the two don't mix well.  As for cohesion, I think the group I run for has run out once, maybe twice, so 'burning through cohesion faster' isn't much of a deterrent for them- they definitely game the system, but it was really simple for them to build out a Kill Team with a pool of 10-15 per session.

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Reply #6 | Published on 11 October 2012 - 04:23:25
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I just felt it necissary to point out the rulebook states the following about solo and squad modes:

Solo modes function like talents and skills and, "Provided that the Battle-Brother is in Solo Mode, he can use his Solo Mode abilities freely." (DW Core, pg. 215)

Player characters may only benefit from one 'Squad Mode Action' a turn which, "… allow(s) Battle-Brothers to take Actions outside of their normal Turn, such as moving, shooting, or making close combat attacks." A player character which benefits from such a 'Squad Mode Action', "cannot benefit or take another Squad Mode Action until at least the start of his next Turn." (DW Core, pg. 219)

Without Signature
Reply #7 | Published on 11 October 2012 - 09:26:12

Nathiel said:

 I have gotten a conflicting rules answer about size modifiers saying it works for both ranged and melee. I may have been asking about BC but since the descriptions are copy/pasted it should be the same for both. I'll have to check that email account when I get home.

As for squad/solo We have been allowing the single squad mode and single solo mode simultaneously and it hasn't caused any headaches. You do burn through the cohesion faster but that's the trade off.

Through the first 3 ranks of advancement I was just about the only character to regularly spend cohesion but of late the other players have started figuring out how useful it can be to have an extra melee or ranged attack 'for free.' So we've been 'running low/out' much more commonly.Thankfully I'm an Ultramarine Tactical Marine with super-Fellowship and a starting cohesion of 12. ;) 

"These our actors, / As I foretold you, were all spirits,/ Are melted into air, into thin air, / And, like the baseless fabric of vision, / The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, / The solemn temples, the great globe itself, / Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve / And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, / Leave not a rack behind." Shakespeare's The Tempest, IV.1

 

Get your Bard on at the Bard Brawl!  

Reply #8 | Published on 12 October 2012 - 16:41:22

Macharias the Mendicant said:

Through the first 3 ranks of advancement I was just about the only character to regularly spend cohesion but of late the other players have started figuring out how useful it can be to have an extra melee or ranged attack 'for free.' So we've been 'running low/out' much more commonly.Thankfully I'm an Ultramarine Tactical Marine with super-Fellowship and a starting cohesion of 12. ;) 

Don't forget the Ultramarine's Rally Cry, and don't forget to spend all your fate to either heal or restore lost cohesion at the end of every session.

Without Signature

Reply #9 | Published on 15 October 2012 - 11:09:36

Yup. :) We don't run out of cohesion too often.

"These our actors, / As I foretold you, were all spirits,/ Are melted into air, into thin air, / And, like the baseless fabric of vision, / The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, / The solemn temples, the great globe itself, / Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve / And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, / Leave not a rack behind." Shakespeare's The Tempest, IV.1

 

Get your Bard on at the Bard Brawl!  

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