They must count as a single model as no models are removed and loss of wounds does not effect the unit at all, I see it as no different than flaming a multi-wound hero.

We'll have to wait for the rules, but I can see how they could be a sort of a hybrid. They count as three figures when rolling damage from X/+ weapons, but they take damage just like a single hero.

Loophole Master said:

What I do is keep a small dice and log the hits that way. This way I and my opponent can track the hits and readily see if the unit is working at say half speed or cannot move, etc…… I do the same for my vehicles. Seems to work well and is easy to follow. However i am not the rule maker for the game but probably will adjust this rule once the minis come out.

fhaugh said:

Well, one big advantage this unit has over Heavy Laser Grenadiers is that you don't have to buy an expensive core box to get them!

 Check E-bay.  There is always at least one auction for the heavy lasers parted out from a core set.

fhaugh said:

Not the premium versions.

Kriegschatten said:

One big advantage the HLGs have over the JagdLasers is that for $30 more you get 2 light walkers, 2 heroes, and 5 more squads.  There's absolutely no reason not to get the RCS.  That said, I'm still getting these guys and the Marines, even though they look like they'll be a bitch to paint.

Mattador Actual said:

Yeah, but if you're a premium-only player like me, then the difference is more like $200.

On top of that, the only other unit in the revised core set that I really like is Lara.  (The Heavy Flak Grenadiers are pretty good, actually, but seem to be easily replaced by the Heavy Recon Grenadiers…who are a better match for Lara anyway.)

Nothing against the Heavy Recon Grenadiers, but the Heavy Flak are one point cheaper, and can do damage to both armor class 3 ground vehicles and level 3 air vehicles, (which the Heavy Recon cannot) which does give them some added punch.  Granted, the Heavy Flak have to use an action to reload, which can certainly be problem at times, but I think this is compensated for by their "burst weapon" classification that lets them double the dice on a target that has not moved, thus getting a shot on the Hellboys before they have moved nets you a huge 18 dice, compared to the still respectable 9 dice for the Heavy Recon Grenadiers.  I think there is certainly a place for both units.

Kriegschatten said:

That's a you problem.  And Hellboys say Hi.

Mattador Actual said:

The Hellboys aren't bad, but I think I prefer the BBQ Squad.  The BBQ Squad already has plenty of anti-infantry punch, so getting the second flamethrower that the Hellboys have isn't really adding that much--especially since it costs you your demo charges (i.e. most of your anti-armor capability) and 4 more points.

The BBQ Squad gets really fun against armor with Johnny One-Eye added since they can toss around five demo charges every turn if they want to.

Anyway, to get things back on topic, considering that the Laser-Jagdgrenadiere hit armor just as hard as a Wotan, have better anti-infantry and anti-air numbers than the Wotan, and cost less than half as much, there doesn't seem to be much reason to use the Wotan (yeah, range 10 is nice, but range 6 is usually more than enough).

The Wotan AR is immune to the Honey's phaser guns - which is the reason I field it - while the Laser Jagdgrenadiere squad is definitively not..

However, it's the second time an AR3 Axis infantry squad makes a walker obsolete, once again with laser weapons. Maybe there's a pattern.

golem101 said:

Wait, people actually use the Honey?!

On a more serious note, the problem with the Wotan AR (as I see it) is that, for one point more, you can get a Ludwig and a Laser Jagdgrenadiere squad.  You can then send the Ludwig to hunt down the Honey (possibly from outside of the Honey's range) while the laser squad hunts down something else.

Well, I do use the Hermann in place of the Heavy Laser Grenadiers*, so the Honey isn't really too far - please notice that ours are friendly yet competitive house games. The only walker that has been sent to the scrapyard is the Blackhawk, deemed a complete waste of points. Even the Loth pops up sometimes, and once managed to almost waste a Punisher all by itself!

The Wotan is often fielded as a centerpiece unit, a flagship of sorts, and its higher than usual armor and resistance has an undeniable psychological effect. Having two good units instead of one makes sense at the planning table, but in the battlefield the plan does not carry the same impact.

* I positively despise the look of AR3 infantry, doubled up when they make another unit obsolete. No Allied AR 3 squads at all, and only the Heavy Flak Grenadiers to team up with Lara for the Axis.

golem101 said:

Has anyone made up some house rules to make the Blackhawk more tempting to use? Its a shame to have a walker that no one will ever choose.

I guess the thought process for the RCS was to balance its fast with the range 3 of Hans. Once you have any other walkers however that "balancing' is clearly unbalanced.

Take care and have a great day.