There are other explainations for for "shoe horning" the character attributes and whatnot into DQ. I believe one of the primary reasons was to try and make some elements of the game familiar to the younger generation that have not seen it before? Accessability. That, and it creates a recognizable brand, which is more or less what the wall'o'rant was getting at. But, it is not likely the only reason, and accessability is a good reason, IMO.

As for one bad roll ruining the game for everyone. The whole frak'n game comes down to one roll or one card or one totally random element that kills you. This game is 99% luck and 1% more luck. I do see your point though, and if the rest of the game wasn't the same way I would agree with you.

Now to the "shoe horning", well yes I agree here. I disagree in that it makes the game bad or unenjoyable though. I do not mind it. RW is one of the favorite games and it is another re-implemented game that was show-horned into this setting. Again, with RW the attributes are barely used and scream for meaning - what really makes it feel show-horned (IMO) is that attributes are used or skill checks only, in both games, but not for combat which just seems weird.

For me I think combat (old or new) takes to long. I much prefer to use the current system with a house rule to allow the character to run away mid away after any round they lost, if they they are able. It keeps you from having to die against a foe you cannot beat for whatever reason, and it lets it end earlier.

Looking at it thematically, the random time limit actually makes sense.

You are underground, there are no windows to look out of to see exactly how close it is to sunset. With no accurate way to measure the passage of time (no wristwatches), and death lurking around every corner, it is easy to loose track. Sure you know it’s getting late, but how late? Do you only have a few minutes, or is sunset not for another half an hour? (Do you feel lucky?)

sound like you're looking at the end of the sun track as the end of the game....shouldn't you be looking at the last unnumbered track as the end and the last five numbered ones as extra time. if you do that then you have a 5 turn variable end, which i presume should add a level of suspense and allow for the no one wins end or the 'victory was within in our grasp' defeat. quite often in board games the guy whos ahead is usually ahead and goes on to win, this way even the winning guy has something to worry about...       i think it sound cool when you look at it like that.

incidently there are twenty five sun slots before you have to start rolling so that means a twenty five turn game.  giving you 25 -30 turns (you could house rule that the first player only moves the sun counter along on a roll of 4,5,or 6) thereby slowing down the passage of time.

  and whats with all the angst all over the forums? i walked into an argument on the LOTR card game forum the other day. if you don't like a game don't waste your time with it. it's not for you.

ffg are successfull and they know games. they are expanding their range so people must love what they're doing to them and be buying them. Me i'm happy to buy and play this game having read the rules, sure i didn't like everything i saw in there but when i saw all of the variable extra rules at the end and everything kinda fell into place for me i understood what ffg was doing with the game.

sometimes you gotta take a leap of faith and try it, sometimes the worst games can be the most fun with the right people.

All this talk about earlier DQ sent me to ebay and Amazon and I was suprised to see it easy to get and not that expensive for the base game.  The simpler combat model in the earlier game may be better for me to get my non-gaming wife and 8 year old into the game.

My question is about the catacombs in new DQ versus the Catcombs expansion in the old one.   Does the new DQ catacombs model accurately reflect how the old DQ handled the catacombs or does the original expansion add different/additional content than what is present in the new game?  Or am I out to lunch here and the concepts are totally different.....

Cheers

gforce200 said:

Catacombs in the old DQ are similar to the new one. it works the same way (you enter, draw catacombs cards etc.) and the number of catacombs cards are similar (32 cards in the old DQ, 40 cards in the new one). FFG changes the way to determine where you exit (old version: you go straight from the direction you have chosen  for the number of catacombs cards you have drawn, then roll 1d10 dice, and see in the chart on the rulebook how you deviate on the right or left -max 4 spaces-. New version: you go straight from the direction you have chosen for the number of catacombs cards you have drawn, then decide if you want to go left or right, then roll 1d6 dice and move your hero in the direction how many space as rolled. There is a big thread in the forum about this change, because someone like it and someone not.) BUT in the old expansions there were also things that there aren't (i think) in the new version: snotlings and amulets, plus 20 new tiles and few cards.

IMO, if you wanna the best experience with DQ you have 2 choice: or you can find the older DQ with at least catacombs expansion (hero exp. isn't so important, but catacombs is) or is better for you buying the new one, 'cause the base game is still complete enough to have great fun.and I believe that with the first expansion we'll have more cards for the dungeon deck, more characters and something new (snotlings and amulets, maybe?)

last thing, in the old catacombs there weren't sneak attacks cause they were in the room deck; in the new versions sneak attacs SEEM to be in the catacombs deck.

One advantage of getting the new edition especially if playing with non-gaming wife and kids is that all the rules needed (except for the tiles) are on the cards and character sheets and are some what simpler.  Having too constantly ask what a card does or what their character special rules (and tables) are might be off putting.

Thanks for the replies.  I didn't think about the instructions on the cards...that will help.  I would hope expansions will follow so that new DQ will have lots of content soon enough.

Thanks all

there is a simple reason why the old dq (the extensions included) will always have an edge over the new one  - snotlings!