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Deathwatch
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Moderator: FFG Andy FischerFFGAntonGeckoThe Spaniard Topics: 1405 | Posts: 27553
6th Edition Allies Table
Published on 12 July 2012 - 15:03:23
Page 3 of 3 (39 messages) « First page... 2 3
Reply #31 | Published on 15 July 2012 - 23:31:45

UncleArkie said:

Mjoellnir said:

 


 

As far as I remember the Eldar collect souls to form a new god who can kick Slaanesh's ass while the Dark Eldar constantly allow Slaanesh to siphon off their soul energy while they replenish it from other sources. That seems like a tiny conflict of interest to me.

 

 

 

The Eldar hide their souls in soul stones when they die for them not to be eaten by Slannesh, Dark Eldar hope to appease the Dark Prince by offering up suffering, pleasure and souls to him. Two different approaches to the same conundrum, don't eat my soul please.

Don't believe the DEldar offer anything to Slaanesh. They hate it too. They keep their spirits bolstered by inflicting pain - they don't give that pain to Slaanesh.

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Reply #32 | Published on 16 July 2012 - 03:44:58

Kshatriya said:

 

Don't believe the DEldar offer anything to Slaanesh. They hate it too. They keep their spirits bolstered by inflicting pain - they don't give that pain to Slaanesh.

The Dark Eldar don't offer anything, but by continuing to live like before the Fall they allow her to take it. From "The Torturer's Tale" (a story Asdrubael Vect tells to a human prisoner in an old White Dwarf. Google it if you want to read the whole thing):

"As time passed through an eternal nightmare of half-reality – for the emergence of the Great Enemy created the vortex known to you as the Eye of Terror, engulfing our oldest worlds – it became clear to our hero that She Who Thirsts was not finished with our people, her hunger would never be sated. She had a grip on our spirits and though temporally assuaged by the massive slaking of Her thirst during Her birth, She still needs to drink. Our lord-to-be felt Her thirst lapping at him and saw it in the faces of others, their essence being slowly leeched away by the Nightmare That Hungers."

"It seemed there was but one way of escaping Her and that was to flee their homes and leave the physical world behind forever. We came here, into the realm between worlds that we created to traverse the galaxy safe from harm. Here, the Great Enemy's grip is weakened, yet to our Lord's horror it was not wholly broken. He had bought his people time, a little instant of time but nothing more."

"Our founder looked upon the outside world, horrified by the beasts rampantly breeding across our domains. But then a thought occurred to him. Perhaps She Who Thirsts would drink others, as well as us. He sent some of his many warriors to capture a few of the man-things that had been spawned by an insignificant blue world in the western spiral arm. His best counselors and experts examined them and indeed these beasts, for all their crudity, still contained that vital essence of life, that spark of spirit that turns a fleshy vessel into a living thing."

Stipendium peccati mors est. Personal Motto of Deathwatch Champion Raziel, Black Shield.

Reply #33 | Published on 16 July 2012 - 18:03:42

Mjoellnir said:

Kshatriya said:

 

 

Don't believe the DEldar offer anything to Slaanesh. They hate it too. They keep their spirits bolstered by inflicting pain - they don't give that pain to Slaanesh.

 

 

The Dark Eldar don't offer anything, but by continuing to live like before the Fall they allow her to take it. From "The Torturer's Tale" (a story Asdrubael Vect tells to a human prisoner in an old White Dwarf. Google it if you want to read the whole thing):

"As time passed through an eternal nightmare of half-reality – for the emergence of the Great Enemy created the vortex known to you as the Eye of Terror, engulfing our oldest worlds – it became clear to our hero that She Who Thirsts was not finished with our people, her hunger would never be sated. She had a grip on our spirits and though temporally assuaged by the massive slaking of Her thirst during Her birth, She still needs to drink. Our lord-to-be felt Her thirst lapping at him and saw it in the faces of others, their essence being slowly leeched away by the Nightmare That Hungers."

"It seemed there was but one way of escaping Her and that was to flee their homes and leave the physical world behind forever. We came here, into the realm between worlds that we created to traverse the galaxy safe from harm. Here, the Great Enemy's grip is weakened, yet to our Lord's horror it was not wholly broken. He had bought his people time, a little instant of time but nothing more."

"Our founder looked upon the outside world, horrified by the beasts rampantly breeding across our domains. But then a thought occurred to him. Perhaps She Who Thirsts would drink others, as well as us. He sent some of his many warriors to capture a few of the man-things that had been spawned by an insignificant blue world in the western spiral arm. His best counselors and experts examined them and indeed these beasts, for all their crudity, still contained that vital essence of life, that spark of spirit that turns a fleshy vessel into a living thing."

Except that much of the Dark Eldar background changed when the new codex came out. Asdrubael Vect's story in The Torturer's Tale is no longer accurate (because Vect's backstory differs from his account of it there, and because the settlements in the Webway were already heavily inhabited by the cults of excess long before the final days of the Fall), and the matter of what they actually do with their captives has been clarified.

Dark Eldar consume the agony and terror of others, essentially devouring souls to replenish their own withered essence. They don't sacrifice others to She Who Thirsts as an alternative to their souls.

Nathan 'N0-1_H3r3' Dowdell

Writing Credits so far: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet KoronusBlack Crusade Core Rulebook, Hostile Acquisitions, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War Core Rulebook, The Navis Primer & Ark of Lost Souls

Disclaimer: Any & all comments I make on these forums are my own opinion, not those of Fantasy Flight Games. My comments & rules suggestions should not be taken as official, are for all intents & purposes nothing more than the words of a devoted fan & long-time member of this community.

A collection of my unofficial supplements can be found here.

Reply #34 | Published on 17 July 2012 - 02:40:57

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

Except that much of the Dark Eldar background changed when the new codex came out. Asdrubael Vect's story in The Torturer's Tale is no longer accurate (because Vect's backstory differs from his account of it there, and because the settlements in the Webway were already heavily inhabited by the cults of excess long before the final days of the Fall), and the matter of what they actually do with their captives has been clarified.

Dark Eldar consume the agony and terror of others, essentially devouring souls to replenish their own withered essence. They don't sacrifice others to She Who Thirsts as an alternative to their souls.

Strange, I thought they actually republished the story when the new Dark Eldar were released, however, you still don't get what I'm saying. The Dark Eldar don't sacrifice others. Slaanesh slowly leeches off their souls and they replenish it from others. Essentially Slaanesh drinks from a bunch of bottles that is constantly being refilled. The bottles don't become empty at which point they would be thrown into the trash (dead) but Slaanesh still drinks more and more and more.

Stipendium peccati mors est. Personal Motto of Deathwatch Champion Raziel, Black Shield.

Reply #35 | Published on 17 July 2012 - 04:11:57

 Which just leads back to "please don't eat my soul", the replenishment is just another way of preserving the self which is what is important to the Eldar as a race, they are more like two factions than two races. 

The price of existence is eternal warfare.

Nez Notation : Here

 

Reply #36 | Published on 17 July 2012 - 05:12:11

UncleArkie said:

 Which just leads back to "please don't eat my soul", the replenishment is just another way of preserving the self which is what is important to the Eldar as a race, they are more like two factions than two races. 

Mjoellnir said:

Craftworld Eldar try to merge into a god that can defeat Slaanesh. Dark Eldar constantly feed Slaanesh therefore making her stronger and increasing her chances to do with Ynnead what she did with the other Eldar gods which means that the essence of all the Eldar who "hid their souls in soul stones" would be devoured by her. If I were an Eldar I would try to kill as many Dark Eldar as possible, capture their souls and bury them in the Black Library. Because in the long term they were trying to feed my soul to Slaanesh. Not mentioning the whole deal of them devouring Eldar souls too whose essence is then again drained from them by Slaanesh.

It's not "please don't eat my soul" for the Dark Eldar, it's "please take all you want from my soul, I'll just replenish it later with the soul of some tortured slave." The Dark Eldar allow Slaanesh to constantly feed on them while the Craftworlders lock her out. And with the constant feeding the Dark Eldar improve Slaanesh's chances of beating Ynnead to a pulp and devouring him. Which since he consists of the collected souls of the Craftworlders…. gnah, I'm already repeating myself.

Stipendium peccati mors est. Personal Motto of Deathwatch Champion Raziel, Black Shield.

Reply #37 | Published on 17 July 2012 - 07:22:16

Mjoellnir said:

 

It's not "please don't eat my soul" for the Dark Eldar, it's "please take all you want from my soul, I'll just replenish it later with the soul of some tortured slave."

 

 

You make it sound like there's willingness involved.

The souls of the Dark Eldar are being forcibly dragged away, though far slower than they would be if they dwelled in realspace. They don't have a choice in the matter - it would happen regardless of what other actions they took (the only ways out, demonstrably, are to bind yourself to a Soulstone… and that isn't guaranteed as soulstones can be broken, or to become one of the Harlequins whose souls are bound to Cegorach). They devour the essence of others to replenish their souls and prolong their existences, denying She Who Thirsts their souls in death.

In essence, between the revifification that many powerful Dark Eldar undergo should they actually die, and the devouring of the souls of those too weak to endure, the Dark Eldar themselves serve as a collective repository for the energies of their kin.

The Dark Eldar do differ from their craftworlder kin on a metaphysical level - their souls are atrophied, feeble echoes of what they once were, requiring the regular invigoration of imbibed torment to truly sustain them, lest they become little more than wretched husks devoid of sensation… but to regard their nature as some form of offering to the Great Enemy is (IMO) a serious misinterpretation of the text.

Nathan 'N0-1_H3r3' Dowdell

Writing Credits so far: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet KoronusBlack Crusade Core Rulebook, Hostile Acquisitions, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War Core Rulebook, The Navis Primer & Ark of Lost Souls

Disclaimer: Any & all comments I make on these forums are my own opinion, not those of Fantasy Flight Games. My comments & rules suggestions should not be taken as official, are for all intents & purposes nothing more than the words of a devoted fan & long-time member of this community.

A collection of my unofficial supplements can be found here.

Reply #38 | Published on 17 July 2012 - 08:33:02

As you said, they do have the choice to bind themselves to soulstones. To make a real-world example (hopefully without sparking a political debate), Craftworld Eldar try to fight global warming by reducing emissions. Dark Eldar try to survive the consequences with air conditioning which makes the greenhouse effect worse. Sure, the Dark Eldar could happily live without having their souls drained off, just like no one likes to live at 50° C, but they are unwilling to go the hard way and limit themselves. The effects of the actions of both peoples should set them at odds.

Stipendium peccati mors est. Personal Motto of Deathwatch Champion Raziel, Black Shield.

Reply #39 | Published on 20 July 2012 - 15:03:23

I'd suggest those differences do put them at odds. They don't live together, or hang out for family dinners, for example, and Dark Eldar aren't welcome to just show up at Maidenworlds and set up shop or Craftworlds to hang out.

On the other hand, its like hanging out with the members of your extended family that you don't like. You may not want them over for supper, and you might not even like them, and you might make fun of them behind their back, but if the Russians invade Crazy Uncle Ross's farm, and I have an army, you can be sure I'm gonna show up if I can to help him.

Thats how I see it, anyway.

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