Blood Pact said:

Sigh…sadly my summer has devolved to the point where being a troll and baiting idiots like Alumium is quite entertaining >.<

 I think everyone who 'disagrees' with me is trolling. Thank you for confirming it.

See! If you disagree with me you are agreeing with the guy who hates Space Marines and is just trolling the boards!!!!!1111!

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Rawrsong said:

This literally cannot be correct. For one thing it completely omits Ordo Hereticus. For another The Inquisition is not subject to oversight by the High Lords of Terra. Third, the individual Space Marine Chapters really fall under the Adeptus Terra generally, not the Administratum.

+++++Well maybe I'm just lucky when it comes to the majority of GM's I've dealt with in the past. But no, my character's success has usually been down to me more than the GM. They craft the adventure of course, but they also set a reasonable level of challenge (IE: as previously mentioned one where I have to fight, figuratively or literally, for my victory), and then step back to let the players make their own choices, the chips falling as they may from that.+++++

But the GM interprets how the world reacts to the choices. So does he have the Inquisition write off the loss of an Inquisitor or bring their full resources to bear to avenge the insult? Does the PCs Watch Captain approve of their actions or just back them anyway because they are fellow Marines? Are any Inquisition hit squads defeatable or overwhelming? If defeatable are they defeatable purely with use of the combat system, or will there need to be Clever Ideas employed. If Clever Ideas are neeeded, what counts as a Clever Idea?. Will the Inquisition keep sending hit squads until the PCs are dead or will they forget about it after a token effort?

And there is no real 'objective' answer to any of these questions. You can pick any outcome you can justify and you can justify a lot. How the chips fall depends on the calls the GM makes.

Certainly the results you get can depend on your own skill, but this is largely your skill in figuring out how the GM will respond and what to say to get him decide on an outcome that you find pleasing than anything more, yknow, in universe.

AluminiumWolf said:

Actually I really do absolutely hate the Space Marines in video and pen and paper games. I don't have any insecurities that I need to cover up by RPing as a 'roided up genetic freak who's main purpose to exist is to kill things.

Kshatriya said:

Not only is it wrong for that reason, but the Mechanicus is definitely not under the Adeptus Terra, nor are the Custodes, nor is the Officia Assassinorum.

The high lords are fairly clearly, in my mind, modeled after the old English "Privy Council," with representatives from the various jurisdictions advising the king.  Only in this case, the King is a Golden Throne, so they just run the show instead.

AluminiumWolf said:

Well story necessities always come up from time to time, when it comes to running the game. And while noone likes being railroaded, sometimes the GM needs to make someone/something react to the characters in a certain way to keep the story progressing as planned. But that aside, my GM's look at the setting as is and base their decisions off that.

And for all your love of Space Marines, Wolf, even you have to admit that the fluff doesn'r depict them as unstobbable warrior gods who never break a sweat and always come out on top, whether they're fighting hordes of slavering mutants or duelling a Hive Tyrant. Who cannot be touched by any Imperial authority short of the Emperor himself.

No, they have to contend with the Inquisition as much as the Inquisition contends with them. Just be damn happy that they didn't make the Deathwatch subservient to the Ordo Xenos. Minor, but still the best change in fluff I've seen in a while, with absolutely nothing lost, or to complain about.

So like I was saying, in my past experience, the GM's have generally based the behavior and interactions with NPC's on the default setting (with conceit for story concerns, of course), past actions of the players, and whatever info had been made up about the NPC's built for the game beforehand (which is again, based on the standard 40K setting). So were we to kill an Inquisitor, if that Inquisitor was radical, but powerful with many allies and minions, then yes they are going to find some opposition moving against them, even if there was good reason for it. But unless the killing was totally uncalled for they're unlikely to recieve censure, be stripped of their armour, and sent home in disgrace (remember that Space Marines kinda stick together).

Like I said, challenge. You're playing a warrior demi-god, part of a force more than capable of bringing entire civilized worlds to their knees. But the galaxy isn't going to lay down at your feet in awe of your complete unstoppableness. Frankly Wolf, when you get way too enthusiastic about Space Marines, the stuff you talk about is right out of the immature, little boy, wank-fest that people sometimes describe 40K in general, and Space Marines in particular, as. And I can't fucking STAND those people, because this is my favourite game, and just like its more farcical origins (another thing I wish people would shutup about), it's moved past that.

Rawrsong said:

Subtle troll is subtle.

+++++And for all your love of Space Marines, Wolf, even you have to admit that the fluff doesn't depict them as unstobbable warrior gods who never break a sweat and always come out on top, whether they're fighting hordes of slavering mutants or duelling a Hive Tyrant. Who cannot be touched by any Imperial authority short of the Emperor himself.+++++

True enough, but 

1: like I say I think the fluff makes more sense if they are. And, like, since Marines are the biggest thing in tabletop gaming surely we want them to be important.

2: I kinda think that that is what a lot of people who play Marines are going to want. I don't think many people are going to go in thinking 'Yeah! I totally want to have it rubbed in my face that my mighty Space Marine doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things! That will be so much fun!'.

+++++Frankly Wolf, when you get way too enthusiastic about Space Marines, the stuff you talk about is right out of the immature, little boy, wank-fest that people sometimes describe 40K in general, and Space Marines in particular, as. And I can't fucking STAND those people, because this is my favourite game, and just like its more farcical origins (another thing I wish people would shutup about), it's moved past that.+++++

Well, I think, pretty explicitly, that we shouldn't apologise for or try to hide that side of the game. I mean, to a great extent I am that guy. In the past I've tried to hide it, but fuck it man, Space Marines are TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!!!

So I want to embrace that side. I mean, I don't think the Space Marine Fanboy stereotype came from nowhere, especially since I embody a fair amount of it and so do people I know in meatspace. So, I dunno, why try really hard to avoid giving people what they want? It isn't like the taste police are going to draw a massive line between Playing the Awesome Marine You Always Dreamed Of and playing a Sensible Marine Who Is Reasonable And Not Over The Top At All, so if you are going to be damned for wanting to play a Space Marine why not make the most of the experience?

So in essence, stop apologising, embrace the awesome, and deliver hardcore, unadulterated Space Marine fanservice!

AluminiumWolf said:

But again, I think you're going too far the other way.  Space Marines DO matter, they're just not superman in a universe without kryptonite.  And a lot of us on the forums, as you can see, want to play more of the thinking man's marine in a game with balance rather than an 80s action movie.

Charmander said:

Yeah, but that is because you are self hating Marine fans who haven't yet managed to overcome your hangups that people will look down on you for having insecurities that you need to cover up by RPing as a 'roided up genetic freak who's main purpose to exist is to kill things and accept what you really want out of your Space Marines!

Embrace your inner Space Marine!

:-)

DFK! said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen this in an early prototype of the command structure and not a formal "this is the breakdown" write up for the 40k universe, don't remember where

Skeletor said:

That looks like the command structure charts from some of the old codexes, but things have changed some since those editions.  If you look towards the back of dark heresy book (and you can find it on lexicanum and wikia) you can see what is a more confusing but more current structure and organization.  The mushyness of the circular org chart shows that none of this is as cut and dry as some people would like.

Think of it like the US political structure.  Sure, the President, head of the Executive, can deploy the armed forces, but without support from the Legislative they'll run out of money (and then ammo).  Space Marines can do as they want in many cases, but if they go too far and alienate the organizations of the Empire that support them, they'll be in trouble. 

And as has been described in some texts, the Inquisition doesn't get to do anything they want.  High Lords are High Lords, and any Inquisitor doing anything against a High Lords wishes had better have some pretty potent political backing.  Inquisitors don't even order the Astartes around without good reason, both want to keep each other in good graces the majority of the time.

I knew i'd it seen it somewhere. in the preview for the new 40k book there's a shot of a new version of the that diagram:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6as7LzpmAU#t=50s

Hope that like works, copy and paste it otherwise. Make of it what you will, sorts out a couple of the obvious issues.

Face Eater said:

Yeah, that chart still seems off from what the fluff would dictate.