While having played a couple of matches of Horus Heresy thus far, it appears to me that there are some rules left unclear concerning the Vengeful Spirit.  Fellow player interpretations are welcome, but I'm hoping for official answers for the following:

1.  This one's mainly a sanity test:  Does the Boarding Action order ignore the normal restrictions of moves only being permitted to friendly or neutral areas, despite being a Move order?

2.  Can a Port Landing order place units onto contested or enemy areas of the Vengeful spirit?

3.  Can a Port Landing order played on the Vengeful Spirit place units from the stockpile?

4.  Do Port Landing and Drop Pod orders allow for heroes to be moved to and from the Vengeful Spirit, despite the facts that they're not Move orders and heroes are left unspecified?

5. Is it possible for the Command Center to become breached?

6.  Can Magnus the Red use his special ability within the Vengeful Spirit?

7.  Does the The Sky Fortress Rises event allow for units to be moved from the Vengeful Spirit to Terra (meaning that it is not against the Vengeful Spirit as the event restricts)?

That's all I have for now.  Others can feel free to ask their own questions about the Vengeful Spirit.

I would love to know the answer to point 1 as well.

This issue actually halted our game for a while the other night. My friend, playing Imperial, wanted to attack the Vengeful Spirit. However, there's no way to fire on it from adjacent spaces, and I had units in the Spirit Catacombs. The name of Boarding Action, and indeed logic, seems to indicate that you can assault the Vengeful Spirit by way of this card, however the rules state that you cannot move into an enemy-occupied area and the card states it is a move action.

Does this mean the ONLY way for the Imperial player to assault the Vengeful Spirit is if the Traitor player is foolish enough to leave the Spirit Catacombs empty after voluntarily moving his units out? This seems somewhat unfair to the Imperial player, as well as being historically inaccurate!

Exaar said:

Don't know about unfairness, but as far as history goes, seems more on the ball than not. In the real battle, Horus deliberately dropped the shields on the Vengeful Spirit to lure Emp into attacking him onboard. Suggesting the Imperials couldn't have boarded the ship otherwise.

Reading the rules carefully, page 21 calls both "secret routes" and "boarding action" exception cards.  Reading the paragraph seems to heavily imply that you can use boarding action to invade the catacombs even if they are occupied.

Reading all of the imperial order cards, Boarding action is the ONLY card that lists specific spaces as destination targets.   I believe using the bold word 'move' was a poor word...they should have used some other word.

Oh, and a chaos player never has any reason to empty the catacombs.  If you must do so because you have no other reserve units, you have probably lost.

Jaeger, are you sure abandoning catacombs is a bad idea? Horus may descend from Spirit to Terra and fight there. Loosing the Ship is not loosing the battle... Actually in my last game I saw Horus running from the Emperor who tried to catch him on the Vengful. The Traitor escaped to the palace. It was quite fun :).

From reading pg 21 on movement. It appears that for normal movement. you cannot enter enemy occupied areas. The exception to this are the"Secret Routes" and " Boarding Action" Order cards. These 2 cards do allow you to enter enemy occupied areas.  The 'pods" order also allows movement from the Vengeful Spirit or stockpile directly into any areas including enemy areas.

Heroes can always tag along with any friendly units which are being moved regardless of whether it is normal move or via special orders. Since they don't count  towards stacking limits, they can be included with the units being moved or transported free.  The only limit is that for a regular move they have 3 movement points max. So for for regular movement purposes, they move just like other units.

Drop Pods does not refer to the keyword "Move" at all and is very clear that you can place the units into enemy areas.

I'm confused by this one too. If the Vengeful Spirit can only be boarded using 'Boarding Action' if the Catacombs are empty, it seems ridiculously hard to do.

The bit in the rules on Page 21 that say 'Boarding Action' and 'Secret Routes' are exceptions to the rule would clear it up, but it's placed in a section talking about being able to make a full move to the target area, and not in the area talking about only being able to move to friendly/neutral areas.

Could someone at FFG let us know the answer to this one?

Thanks,

Eisley.

i think so too and I would be pretty surprised if you can't move there, but since there are a couplke of other important questions, I think its time for a FAQ. 

 Hy everybody,

I'm Fench, so excuse me for my bad english :-(

I was playing for the fouth time yesterday and I wondered :

If the emperor boards the Vengeful Spirit (catacombs, using the boarding action order) and kills everybody there,

Is there any way for traitor player to bring units in catacombs (which is now an ennemy area) ? 

If not, it would be an easy way for Imperium to win : Emperor just has to wait here not to be killed, until the end of initiative track.

Hope my question is understandable...

Thanx !

Miles.

formynder said:

Without checking the wording on the Port Landing card, I'd say Traitor can't bring in more troops.

formynder said:

If the Emperor managed to clear the Catacombs in the coexistance battle, I'd guess he brought with him quite a number of Imperial troops, mainly Custodes and Space Marines. All those are now out of the picture as far as defending against the Spaceport Victory option, the easier Traitor win option IMO.

 Ok thank you,

So, there is only one way for the Emperor to board the VS : Boarding action

And only one way for Traitor to get it back (if occupied by ennemy) : the Secret Routes order.

So I guess it's a good way to win (for emperor player) : To take the VS's Catacombs and wait here (and hope the traitor won't draw the "Secret Route Card") AND to place all other units defending a spaceport... In this case, good luck to traitor to draw Secret Route order card before game ending !!!!

Hope this time my english was not too bad...

What I'm trying to say is : Once you've won the coexistance battle in Catacombs with Emperor, you've almost won cause traitoir has only ONE way to bring units back on Vengeful Spirit (which is an ennemy zone) : The "Secret Route Card".
They may say traitor can attack from Command Center, but you can only put 3 units there..

Miles

Remember port landing and pods can be used to bring units from the vengeful spirit to terra, so if the Imperial player boards the vengeful spirit and doesnt attack the command center straight away, the traitor player can use either of those orders to bring horus to terra, making the assault a waste of time and units.

Three Headed Monkey said:

Yes, but there are two conditions for Imperial Victory :

- Killing Horus

- Reaching the end of initiative track with emperor alive; I thought it was easy to keep emperor alive on catacombs, since there is only one card allowing traitor to come back on VS to kill emperor...

formynder said:

Imperials can also win via Spaceport Victory.

Haven't checked the Traitor Order deck, but does it even have Secret Routes? I've seen in the Imperial deck, but guess I haven't gone through the Traitor deck in detail.

Realistically, just taking Catacombs probably means Emp took Custodes and 2+ Space Marines with him. With Traitors having 2-3 Spaceports in their control right after set-up (2 on setup, corruption + bombardment usually flips a third, sometimes even the fourth), those units aren't really worth it to sit them in the Catacombs, babysitting Emp. If you do keep them there, I as Traitor would love it and take the spaceports with little trouble, having 4 Space Marine Legions against the Imperial's 2. Imperial Army and Tanks are traitor-fodder for Fulgrim, Magnus and Mortarion take care of the Space Marines and Titans. And you can only rebuild Tanks and Titans.

Yeah, unless you intend to kill horus before you opponent gets initiative back I see no point in attacking the Vengeful Spirit. You want as many forces defending the Space Ports as possible. Keep in mind that the Emperor is still pretty hard to kill, sitting in the inner palace with three custodes and surrounded by two space marine legions.

Oh, and the traitor player does not have the secret passages order. Only the imperial player can draw that order.