Rakshasa said:

Touche.

redsimon said:

Apparantly a bigger 40K player then you, seeing I actually DON'T feel a certain company ever gives us the middle finger, though I think some fans are a little disgruntled about not getting away with piracy and copyright infringements.

As for money, it's not a factor in deciding whether I play the game or not.

However, I think for the large scale wars we would play Epic as the game of choice, or for fantasy, warmaster, as the large number of troops would be easier to handle.

I currently have 5 armies that of Space Marines (like everyone else), Space Wolves being my focus, Tau, Dark Eldar, and Orcs, and tyranids.  I have remnants of 3rd edition Witch Hunters/Sisters of Battle and Imperial Guard.  My becoming a fan of FFG has actually SAVED me money on gaming...believe it or not.  It's also saved me on time as I don't paint the minis in the games or even paint anymore, nor do I have to put the pieces together.

When I got Space Hulk I just played others copies, instead of my own, I had forgotten the pain it is to put together and paint your minis after being spoiled by FFG.  I suppose HH appeals to me slightly perhaps because of this, I am slowly inching away from the Miniature Wargame hobby and becoming a fast Boardgame Geek Fanatic.  It's easier to grab a game and go, and also easier to play with my kids (kids aren't into WH40K, or any of the typical GW games).

Unfortunately, the rest of the GW crowd is NOT following my lead, and are as hardcore into 40K as ever.

I do have others I game with, but they are either A&A (AT to a degree)  fanatics, train game fanatics, or Eurogame fanatics.  So, it's a little tough getting the crossover for this one.  Closest would be the A&A fanatics, but they too a person hated Starcraft (I like Starcraft, but hated the actual combat portion, planning the combat was fun, as well as the strategizing, if I had liked the actual combat more, it may have been one of my all time favorite games), and I think in some ways they may be more fanatical about dice than the WH40K crowd.  That said, they do like a LOT of the FFG games I bring, but normally they are the ones like WotR or Tannhauser.

You are not a bigger 40k fan if you like GW more than other fans. From your description it seems your group is heavily into the actual game and less so into the background.

For people who like the background a lot like me the idea to play this historical battle of 40k with great components is very welcome. We will see what the actual quality of the rules is.

The world of GW is full of infantile grown-ups. Expect whining about cards.

Stefan said:

I have to agree.  If the game's mechanics work, what's the issue whether it's dice or cards that are used?

For me at least its about being able to play (even it its a reincarnation) of older GW games i can't get or have lost over the years. Such as space crusade, talisman and so on and so forth and just a love for the fluff and history of the 40k setting. But that just what i base my love or hate of a game on.

Space Crusade? Man, I hope I haven't missed something - like last year, when I only found out they'd re-done Space Hulk after it had sold out.

Rakshasa said:

Don't worry, there hasn't been a new edition of Space Crusade (at least, not yet.)

Edit: Unless I've missed something too =P

We kicked it old school last month with Space Crusade. Paint fumes (don't ask ) caused a change in the original plans, so SC got dug out.

For me and my 40K playing friends the big attraction of this game is getting to play in the era of the Horuse Heresy. To be able to defend the imperial palace (or attack it) is something we've only been able to talk about up to this point. As for the card mechanic, I quite enjoyed the way Warrior Knights played (which is in itself a remake of a GW game) so I remain optimistic.

Cards..... Dice..... What's the difference.  Just a different way to determine the outcome of an event with X probability.  Don't see why anybody with even a rudamentary understanding of math should have a problem using one system over another.

Nematode said:

The noises they make when used . Also the feel, the shaking, the anticipation as the roll slows down.

@GreyLord

I think none of the game systems you mentioned above can capture the feeling of Horus Heresy, which is one of (if not the) most important events in the 40k universe. As for your friends laughing the card-based combat system... show, do not tell. I'm not sure they will be able to resist an awesome map of Terra with plastic fortresses and pile of plastic soldiers (albeit small ones). I know I won't, and I'm a 40k player.

Are dice really that cool that you would take the time to mock a game that doesn't use dice?

Is a card that contains the same information as a die PLUS small background blurbs and fluff really that much worse than a die?

Seems a bit childish to me. If it works, it works. Does the Magic: The Gathering crowd laugh at the guys playing 40K because they look like they are playing yahtzee all night long?

It doesn't seem like much of a reason to stay away from a game.

GreyLord said:

Sounds to me like you have come to a point and realised that you are throwing away way to much to GW on an overpriced and unbalanced game system, that lacks a lot of real tactical prowess.  Your "friends" might laugh at you now for playing a board game but i can guarantee most of them would fail miserably at any one of the strategic board games out on the market these days.  Best thing you can do is find a local group that is into board gaming and get in with them.  At the very least the social aspect of playing with them will be more fun than the annoyance playing GW tabletop games has become.