Hi all,

Jay is right about Liber Fanatica's plans. More on that later.

I agree with Yepesnopes about task difficulties. Having played 2nd edition Pathes of the Damned I have been looking at converting it to 3rd edition. Most of the conversion is simple, particularly with the stuff on this thread. However for the skill roll difficulties I came up with this table which worked reasonably well. I have stuck to FFG's idea of not going above 5 challenge dice, using misfortune dice above that. However there is no reason that the Very Hard dice roll could not be six challenge dice, GM's preference.

Difficulty: 
Very Easy (+30%) Simple (0d)
Easy (+20%) Easy (1d)
Routine (+10%) Average (2d)
Average (0%) Hard (3d)
Challenging (-10%) Daunting (4d)
Hard (-20%) Heroic (5d)
Very Hard (-30%) Heroic+ (5d + 2 Misfortune dice or 6 d)

All the best,

Ralph

Yepesnopes said:

You are of course correct in that the games use very different philosophies. In my opinion this makes a straight conversion more or less impossible (or rather pointless). If you really want to convert 2nd ed. skill tests to 3rd ed. you should focus on making the 2nd ed.binary result scale (success/failure) into a 3rd ed. "branching" result scale (success with comets, success with boons, success with banes, …, failure with banes, failure with chaos stars).

I tend to use Ceodryns scale that Emirokol posted, and then spend some time on actually thinking through what will happen to the players and story when the dice show a "branching" result. Success may be easier to achieve in 3rd ed., but it very often comes with a price (even a 5th rank PC will have a ~40% risk of getting at least one chaos star on a Daunting check).

So I suggest that a general skill check conversion method should include a recommendation to figure out how the skill check can be expanded from a binary test into the 3rd ed approach.

gruntl said:

Very good observation here. In 2nd edition you only have the option to achieve different degree of success (more or less direct translation to the number of hammers) , but no easy way to convert boons and banes o Chaos Stars and Comets.

hammers + comets could be translated as a critcal success in warhammer 2

failure + chaos star could be translated as a critical miss in warhammer 2

Add dice per step.  That would be fine, but I think you're on to something when you talk about the philosophies of the games.  In 2e, you were expected to fail a couple times before success.  In 3e, you're expected to succeed, but "how" you succeed is the difference (hence the 80+% chance to succeed at 1difficulty).  3e focuses more on the consequences of your attempt rather than succeed/fail, so that's where I have the idea that higher fail chances in 2e aren't really worth5,6,7 purple dice (each with terrible consequences of failure)

Because of the time to roll and evaluate has also been lengthened, trying a 2e approach of fail, fail, fail, succeed could take an entire game session.  I think a happy medium is the way to go on the skill checks and it's just understood that there is no "perfect conversion."  Some casualties of conversion will simply have to be adjudicated by the GM.

I did forget to add the "epic 5d" difficulty.  I'll squeeze that in.

Good feedback.

Thanks,

jh

Because of the extra problems of failure or success in 3rd edition, fatigue, stress, delay, PC's are going to be unable to do the multiple dice rolls anyway. I also found that my GM's in 2nd edition didn't allow more than one roll per player anyway. The skill rolls I proposed already included allowances for the extra problems in 3rd edition rolls. Also comets equal critical successes and stars equal fumbles etc.

Just a connecting link to this elsewhere:www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

for reference

jh

List of WFRP1 Skills (for the record)

List of WFRP1 skills

Acrobatics
Acting
Acute Hearing
Ambidextrous
Animal Care/Training
Arcane Language
Art
Astronomy
Begging
Blather
Boat Building
Brewing
Bribery
Carpentry
Cartography
Cast Spells
Charm
Charm Animal
Chemistry
Clown
Comedian
Concealment Rural/Urban
Consume Alcohol
Contortionist
Cook
Cryptography
Cure Disease
Dance
Demon Lore
Disarm
Disguise
Divining
Dodge Blow
Dowsing
Drive Cart
Embezzling
Engineer
Escapology
Etiquette
Evaluate
Excellent Vision
Fire Eating
Fish
Flee!
Fleet Footed
Follow Trail
Frenzied Attack
Gamble
Game Hunting
Gem Cutting
Haggle
Heal Wounds
Heraldry
Herb Lore
History
Hypnotise
Identify Magical Artifact
Identify Plant
Identify Undead
Immunity to Disease
Immunity to Poison
Jest
Juggle
Law
Lightning Reflexes
Linguistics
Lip Reading
Luck
Magical Awareness
Magical Sense
Manufacture Drugs
Manufacture Magic Items/Potions/Rings/Scrolls
Marksmanship
Meditation
Metallurgy
Mime
Mimic
Mining
Musicianship
Night Vision
Numismatics
Orientation
Palmistry
Palm Object
Pick Lock
Pick Pockets
Prepare Poison
Public Speaking
Read/Write
Ride
River Lore
Row
Rune Lore
Rune Mastery
Sailing
Scale Sheer Surface
Scroll Lore
Secret Language
Secret Signs
Seduction
Set Trap
Shadowing
Silent Move Rural/Urban
Sing
Sixth Sense
Smithing
Speak Additional Language
Specialist Weapon
Spot Traps
Stoneworking
Storytelling
Street Fighter
Strike Mighty Blow
Strike to Injure
Strike to Stun
Strongman
Super Numerate (Maths Whizz)
Surgery
Swim
Tailor
Theology
Torture
Trick Riding
Ventriloquism
Very Resilient
Very Strong
Wit
Wrestling

Conversion from 1e to 3e

WFRP1 TO/ WFRP3
Acrobatics / Coordination
Acting / Tradecraft or Guile
Acute Hearing / Observation
Ambidextrous / Coordination
Animal Care/Training / Animal Handling
Arcane Language / Education
Art / Tradecraft or Guile
Astronomy / Education
Begging / Guile
Blather / Guile
Boat Building / Tradecraft
Brewing / Tradecraft
Bribery / Guile
Carpentry / Tradecraft
Cartography / Tradecraft or Education
Cast Spells / Channel or Invoke
Charm / Charm
Charm Animal / Animal Handling
Chemistry / Education
Clown / Charm
Comedian / Guile
Concealment Rural/Urban / Stealth
Consume Alcohol / Resilience
Contortionist / Coordination
Cook / Tradecraft
Cryptography / Education
Cure Disease / First aid/Medicine
Dance / Coordination
Demon Lore / Education
Disarm / Weapon Skill
Disguise / Guile
Divining / Intuition
Dodge Blow / Coordination
Dowsing / Intuition
Drive Cart / Ride
Embezzling / Guile
Engineer / Tradecraft
Escapology / Coordination
Etiquette / Charm
Evaluate / Intuition
Excellent Vision / Observation
Fire Eating / Tradecraft
Fish / Tradecraft
Flee! / Athletics
Fleet Footed / Athletics
Follow Trail / Observation
Frenzied Attack / Intimidation
Gamble / Guile
Game Hunting / Nature Lore
Gem Cutting / Tradecraft
Haggle / Charm
Heal Wounds / First Aid/Medicine
Heraldry / Education
Herb Lore / Nature Lore
History / Education
Hypnotise / Charm
Identify Magical Artifact / Spellcraft
Identify Plant / Nature Lore
Identify Undead / Education
Immunity to Disease / Resilience
Immunity to Poison / Resilience
Jest / Charm
Juggle / Coordination
Law / Education
Lightning Reflexes / Coordination
Linguistics / Education
Lip Reading / Observation
Luck / Intuition
Magical Awareness / Spellcraft
Magical Sense / Spellcraft
Manufacture Drugs / Medicine
Manufacture Magic Items/Potions/Rings/Scrolls / Tradecraft
Marksmanship / Ballistic Skill
Meditation / Intuition
Metallurgy / Tradecraft
Mime / Tradecraft
Mimic / Guile
Mining / Tradecraft
Musicianship / Tradecraft
Night Vision / Observation
Numismatics / Education
Orientation / Nature Lore
Palmistry / Guile
Palm Object / Skullduggery
Pick Lock / Skullduggery
Pick Pockets / Skullduggery
Prepare Poison / Medicine
Public Speaking / Charm
Read/Write / Education
Ride / Ride
River Lore / Nature Lore
Row / Athletics
Rune Lore / Education
Rune Mastery / Education
Sailing / Tradecraft
Scale Sheer Surface / Athletics
Scroll Lore / Education
Secret Language / Education
Secret Signs / Education
Seduction / Charm
Set Trap / Skullduggery
Shadowing / Stealth
Silent Move Rural/Urban / Stealth
Sing / Charm
Sixth Sense / Intuition
Smithing / Tradecraft
Speak Additional Language / Education
Specialist Weapon / Weapon Skill
Spot Traps / Observation
Stoneworking / Tradecraft
Storytelling / Charm
Street Fighter / Intimidate
Strike Mighty Blow / Weapon Skill
Strike to Injure / Weapon Skill
Strike to Stun / Weapon Skill
Strongman / Athletics
Super Numerate (Maths Whizz) / Education
Surgery / Medicine
Swim / Athletics
Tailor / Tradecraft
Theology / Piety
Torture / Indimidate
Trick Riding / Ride
Ventriloquism / Guile
Very Resilient / Resilience
Very Strong / Athletics
Wit / Charm
Wrestling / Athletics

 

 Very nice work. Much appreciated. 

We plan to have a work-in-progress document always available.

jh

Very helpful, thanks!

 Hey guys,

I am curious how you are converting Damage from 2nd to 3rd, especially environmental damages.

For ex, say that a PC is taking a Damage 5 hit due to a fall. In 2nd ed, it would be 5+1d10 - (Toughness Bonus + Armor) = N# of wounds. Do you keep the same formula for 3rd?

I'd like a formula that uses the narrative dice instead of a 1d10. I was thinking to roll 5 Challenges dice, where each Challenge = 1 wound, each Chaos Star = 1 wound or 1 critical (per GM decision). Toughness and Armor would not apply anymore.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Ceodryn

The goal is to have a way to have presentations for LF in rough conversion. 1e to 2e is simple.  2e to 3e will simply be "as close as seems right."  I don't think we're going to get too specific on those adaptions and will leave it up to the author.  The easiest comparisons are in Skills, Careers and the bestiary.  From there, it is a textual conversion.

I don't think we have a damage method for falling though (as you use as an example) for 3e.

jh

Ceodryn said:

you could make the characters do an agility check with dificulty based on the hight. If they fail, they recieve wounds = to dificulty + Defense, or encumbrance value + Defense - soak - toughness… just my two cents ;)

Ceodryn said:

you could make the characters do an agility check with dificulty based on the hight. If they fail, they recieve wounds = to dificulty + Defense, or encumbrance value + Defense - soak - toughness… just my two cents ;)