So we kicked of.

Random careers looks good so far.

I have a dwarf outlaw (he shot a wizards apprentice by mistake at 3rd Black Fire, causing a minor diplomatic problem) Bounty Hunter (he wanted to play dwarf, don't think career meant much to him).

A criminal human gambler, he really wanted something different, and so far he's liking it.

A battle-hardened human scout, also one he wanted to play.

Finally a foreign messenger (from Reikland, didn't want to play non-human, and don't know much about other nations) minstrel… He did not envision this, and might take some time to come to terms with this :)

I must also say, that of the 4 backgrounds we've tried, the foreign messenger comes of weakest in terms of motivation. I've made the letters as a complicated string. One is for Luminous Mauer, one for Kaufman, one for the PC scout and one for the Verena priest.

It all starts with the letter to the scout which signs the scout up to protect the minstrel for things to come (the minstrels patron/lord had a son at 3rd Black Fire which the scout protected through the fight).

Then he wants to buy some of the items Kaufman brought home, which is why he picked the minstrel due to his taste/knowledge of culture.

Then he wants Mauer to testify the items are not of some demonic origin (can't have wicked stuff brought back, would be fun, but also ruin his standing in important circles etc…), finally he wants the Verena church to handle the legal documents…

All will though be halted at Kaufman, as he wont sell, but he does propose another offer to the PC.

Yeah, I also had the opinion that the Foreign Messenger was the weakest of the backgrounds and ended up excluding it.  The other five have much closer ties to Averheim and some of its residents

Delwyn said:

I should have done the same.

If he plays his character to the letter, what he does is try to hand over his letters asap, which gives him pretty much no reason to hang around near the docks. Only background that makes him go there, is the letter to another player, and after delivering that he should be moving.

A better background would have been if his patron had instructed him to observe and befriend either of two of the other backgrounds, due to some reason. Could be the academic has written some interesting, or dangerous thesis, or the gently's family has a vote in the upcomming distribution of trade rights, or that the outlaw did something to anger the patron, etc…

Spivo said:

It actually does. It's the only background that explicity has orders to help the NPCs. 

Thanks for all the ideas; after reading it here are some things I'm thinking about:

I love the idea of PCs being more involved with the Menagerie.  I think the idea about "trying to keep the guests happy so they are more likely to buy an item from the expedition" would make a fun challenge.  We'll start a "guest fun" meter at 3 and it can go up or down depending on how the characters interact/intervene in the following situations.  The players need to remember they are trying to make guests happy (ie agree with them or assure them), not push their own (or their characters) viewpoints.  I see the occasion as a drinking event and even though the PCs are gaurds the "noble folk" mingle some with them or just decide to "get a common gaurds opinion to laugh at" or try to prove one of the other nobles wrong "see, if he thinks that then everyone does".  Also remember that the players might be thought of highly by the nobles for dealing with the bandits.  I think this best fits in on "mingling with guests" page 51.  

1) The top non Leitdorf contender "Marlene Von Alptraum's habit of accompanying her cattle drovers" (page21; In these circles, that is awful behaviour except to Clothilde.)

2) Was Marius *really* crazy.  (of course he was, even to the Leitdorfs, but they do take kindly to anyone who defends Marius by saying leadership is very hard and sometimes drives you insane).

3) Did Bearfast make a tactical blunder that killed Marius?  Did he do it on purpose?  (regardless of the real answer to this, the players need to convince the guests that Bearfast is a loyal Averlander who made no mistakes.  exception is the halfing, where if the players can quietly tell them they think Beerfast is a moron then the fun meter goes up by 2; drunk halflings dancing on the tables mean party!!!)

4) How bad is the trouble down at the docks?  I heard there were more dead people than usual.  Is there some now criminal mastermind? (regardless of what the PCs have found, "party fun" is best served by assuring the people that everything is under control.)

5) Will the trouble in Kislev spill south and Averland need to send troops to war?  (as someone said previously, this is a great time to foreshadow the next chapter.  players of course best serve party fun by saying "no no that is just typical chaos warband stuff it shouldn't be a problem")

6) One of the "ladies in waiting" asks a PC what he thinks about that "lizard-person in the cage."  (i love the idea of having the expedition bring back a lizardman; a description of intelligent eyes and maybe trying to communicate I think gives some nice tension; a player might want to free it!  of course the "fun meter" answer to the lady is that the creature is mindless and has no feelings).

7) Other - if they are "heros" from the bandit encounter, then maybe one of them (paging gently-born) gets introduced by Clothhilde to a lady in waiting and he has some skill he can show off (this is ripe for a bard song about a little number i tossed off recently in the carribean…)

I plan to direct one or two of these toward each player and of course the whole party will see how that characters reaction affects the fun meter.

The events listed (halfling joke, witchhunter, sick, etc) drop the party fun meter but PC response can bring it back up (like convincing halfling not to leave as suggested earlier, first aid on Leitdorf).     

Grandmartoni,

We are on much the same page.  I like playing up the intelligent lizard man more.  Only a primitive tribal creature but one that may have its own (superstition and misinformaton laden) views of the effigy, gold plaque etc. if only it could be communicated with somehow.

My rewrite of the menagerie scene (did you email me for a copy, almost sounds like you're riffing on it, which is what I mean by we're on same page) uses a tracker for the event.  Various "planned activities" move it up and various threats my move it down, with the heroes having chances to ameliorate threats of moving down as well as aid in moving up.  Moving up increases interest in buying displayed (and other, these are only part of the haul from Southlands) trinkets at good prices and makes it all profitable for von Kaufman as well as doing his reputation well (and earning the PCs bonus pay, at one point they are described as getting 20 silver, anotehr 30, I go with 20 silver with bonus pay moving up with the tracker).

I like some of your suggestions of "topics of conversation" as interesting additions.  My PC's would include a noble battle scarred veteran who was there for the final actions of Baerfast etc. at BF Pass and might be asked about that, and a shady guy from the lower part of town who might be asked about rumours of a new criminal mastermind (sounds romantic to a lady in waiting), and an agent of an Ostland noble family with trading concerns in south who is logical to ask about "rumorus of trouble in the north".

Played 1½ session so far (6 hours), and the party has now reached day 2 having saved the barge from fire.

I have the following hints/comments:

- Do your homework! I've yet to run a campaign where every page needs to be memorised (or written down as "quick-notes") this much. Every single page so far has held a huge amount of important details. In parts this is a good thing, I'm beginning to understand how come this book can span a campaign that takes the party to epic career ranks. But I also think some sort of look-up sections would have been appropriate…

My players are asking a TON of questions, many which I was not prepared to answer, and so had to improvise greatly. Like where did Rolf Haller live? No clue…

- Pre-made chars: I wish I had made 6 pre-made chars, linked to the backgrounds, and let the players pick. This would have given a better backgroundstory, in regards to their knowledge of the npc's. For example the Foreign Messengers letters, what's in them? What instruction did his master give him?

- Pacing: I was stunned at our pace so far, a little more than 1 day has passed, spending 6 hours playing. I like it… think my players wants to speed things up a bit though.

- Black Cowl: My players are all over this, the first evening they began staking out the Upright Pig, of signs of his thugs, himself etc… Imo, it's my fault for making him to "sudden". I should gradually have built it up, starting with "Frederick says there's a new upstart leader among thugs at the docks, wouldn't give him to much thought yet", and after a few days "Mathilda looks nervous at you, are you working for him now?".

Instead I made him sound dangerous to begin with, but am lacking any real evidence, such as "that group of thugs all works for him now".

Valvorik,

would love to read your rewrite of the menagerie scene and take a look at the cards. For some unknown reason, can't seem to send you a pm, so could you please send them to my e-mail lemelopes at yahoo dot com dot br?

Thanks for the great work in this topic!

Starting this next week

PC's are

Gently Born Averlander Male Fop

Academic Averlander Male Apprentice Grey Wizard

Criminal Reiklander Male Thief

Battle-Scarred Middenlander Male Bounty Hunter

Outlaw High Elf Female Swordmaster

Thinking of Changing someof the encounters toinclude Orcs and Goblins allowing the Averlanders some benefit from their racial traits.

Will start by having an infestationof Goblins and Snotlings in the Dock area possiblebehind the recent killings???

Maybe swapout bandits for Orcs and Goblins, taking their lead from a mysterious 'Uman in a 'Ood. 

I think greenskins in addition to bandits is a good way to go, keeping bandits who include former soldiers, have pistols with Averheim markings are part of the reason Kaufman distrusts Baerfast come the Menagerie day and excludes his soldiers from event, bringing in his own etc.

(1) In my game the Black Cowl has intimidated/bought off mid-level watch officers down to keep word percolating up the Averburg.  As far as the pubic opinion goes there is some ebb and flow in the crime world but what can you expect, someone's making a play, in a few months it will be turned on its head as someone else does.  Indirectly, the lack of official knowledge/action is a hint about the extent the Brotherhood of the Black Cowl has "friends in high places" and has blackmailed judges and others to look other way.

(2)  I don't see in rules or fiction anything about Old World elves not sleeping same as everyone one else too - this edition or 2nd.  They have no bonus vs being fatigued etc..  I use a time clock like Winds of Change for night activity and if you didn't nap in day, being up late means more and more misfortune dice and other difficulties and race makes no difference only Toughness/Resilience does (so actually a dwarf is a better bet than an elf for up all night action).

That said, I've had players try to stake out parts of docks (suffering penatlies then deciding to sleep till noon and 'offset their clock'.  Gave them a shot (long one but shot) at witnessing one of the "hits" on hold out crime figure but they missed out.  They tried again different tactic (yet to post that session report) but just happened to not be right place/right time to spot anything.

On a separate point (actual reason I came to thread again), I just played the mutant fight on first "working for Red Arrow/Weiss/Kaufman" mission.  With 5 PC's, those mutants are barely a speed bump (even if not surprised).  Once again I am reminded that it seems most encounters are balanced thinking 3 PC's and if you have more you may need to adjust.

Rob

I dont' know if you guys are doing a wiki, but we have been for our campaign:

I'm starting to think that 30 sessions would be optimistic.  We're probably looking at half that, but I run a fast game.

Interesting.

I like wikis for gaming and was using one for last D&D campaign some time back, but after I found not all players really contributing nor reading (a wiki is really useful for collective effort, if 80% of content is GM, a message board is fine is my view).  My own table of players is pretty much as "we can read messsage board (maybe) once between sessions, otherwise if it's not at the table, don't have time for it".  My own time commitment as GM is obviously more than that but I understand if for some "roleplaying is 1 night a week, that's the time I can give it" as long as "you are really giving it that time when you are here" (which my players do).

Per my actual play thread, we're at 3 sessions, 6.5 hours of play (not counting advance selection etc. time) and are mostly through Day 4.

I think part will depend how much a GM fleshes out travel encounters and the tasks to get ritual ingredients in Middenheim - those can all easily add the equivalent of mutiple acts.