N0-1_H3r3 said:

Badlapje said:

And maybe an added two questions to the original since the original writer is here to have his brain picked :

 

Having recently churned out large quantities of text for Black Crusade, my brain is hardly in the best state for picking… but I'll give it a shot.

Badlapje said:

1. are the original options for a Machine of the Flesh limitative (as in playtested and sure not to upset the power balance to much), or just an example and can other mutations also be added? (i'd imagine Corpulent to be overpowered, though perhaps nice for an ascension career for RT characters)

 

I picked those ones specifically, as I could see them being appropriate and reasonably equivalent choices. If you choose to allow any others, I'd suggest only as Elite Advances with different costs applied to more/less powerful ones.

Badlapje said:

2. do you have any thoughts on whether or not a Genetor should be allowed to also do this to other members of his/her crew?  The Companions of Vogel are actively proposing the idea to genetically augment humanity so it can better cope with the myriad of dangers that beset it.  So if a genetor realises a breakthrough such as Regeneration in himself … why would he not propose this to his RT and his first officers (providing of course they are open to the idea of being augmented), or conversely: why would they not try to buy such an augmentation from the Genetor?

 

It's viable as an option, but obviously not something I had the scope to deal with. I would, just off the top of my head rather than with any major thought, make it an Elite Advance option, subject to successful Scholastic Lore (Chymistry), Chem-Use and/or Medicae Tests, all of which should be fairly difficult and come with unpleasant risks and side-effects (a Genetor will know his own body extremely well, and his augmentations are the result of long and careful study… other people are more… fragile). An example of this would be in the novel Legacy (part 2 of the Shira Calpurnia trilogy), where the Explorator in a Rogue Trader's flotilla attempts to alter one of the crew to make him appear (under technological scrutiny) to be the late Rogue Trader's heir… the lucky recipient of these experiments ends up an insane and cancerous mass of immobile flesh… and he was the most successful attempt.

I think that the suggestion of making an Elite Advance is awesome.  The rules are always guidelines to create a meaningful common ground for us all to work from.  Work with your DM/GM.  I personally wanted to start the game out with a couple of mutations on my Explorator leading me into the Genetor alternate class.  I went with "Unnatural Origin - Contaminated Environs" as my Birthright  from Into the Storm, then spent the extra 100 exp get a roll on the mutation chart, after talking to my GM we decided for an additional 200 exp I could choose my mutation under the 74 and under, I went with Brute.  Then for my Lure of the Void I choose "Tainted" (core rule book) and for 200 exp I choose another mutation - I had not seen the errata yet though and went with Necrophage since it said I could pick anything below 76.  The errata has since corrected that.  

Sept 15, 2010 update

Tainted (page 26): The mutant option under Tainted should
only allow players to select results of 74 or lower, not 76 or lower.

I thought it was interesting that the errata also removed two choices for mutations - any thoughts from the author on this errata change???

GENETOR ALTERNATE CAREER RANK
A Machine of Flesh (Talent) (page 82): The Talent Groups
for this Talent should not include Multiple Arms or Winged.

I think I generally agree with the multiple arms one, as it was difficult to figure out what you ended up with looking at the trait versus the mutation table - the table giving you ambidextrous and two weapon fighting talents and the trait giving you +10 toughness and the ability to have two attacks.

I really do not see any problem with the winged one for 500 exp that seems pretty fair.  I would actually like to see this talent "Machine of Flesh" work in a more tiered fashion, with the 1st one costing 200 exp and you can choose from maybe feels no pain, tough hide and sturdy.  Then MoF2 costs 500 exp and you can choose from winged, sonar sense, and brute - then the last advance 700 or 800 to keep the cost at 1500 for all three - regen, corpulent, shadow kin or multiple appendages.

I also found a legittimate way to get The Flesh is Weak and Machine of Flesh with out doing any elite advances.  For your second career, pick up an alternate career level of ARCH HERETEK from Hostile Acquisitions - which also gives you access to three really neat talents you can not get any where else, subversive programing, vile intrusion and lumen desecration!!

Gwdaver said:

You do realise that the orthodox mechanicus will go to geat lengths to hunt you down, don't you?  You're just asking for a one way ticket to Sheol 17. 

On a more serious note, should The Flesh is Weak and Machine of Flesh stack?  Yes, you've found a way to do that with the Rules as Written, but I'm not sure it's Rules as Intended…  The MoF talent upgrades the meat, but the FiW basically means you don't have much meat left…  There's not a whole lot there for the genetor to work with.  (Yes, I am trying to apply logic to the 40K setting, why do you ask?)

Cheers,

- V.

Also… Genetors can swim.  That's an advantage, right?

Gwdaver said:

Full Disclosure: Not the author.

I would characterize this as less of an errata change and more of an errata clarification.  If you read the entire box for the "A Machine of Flesh" Talent you will see that Multiple Arms and Winged are not mentioned in the explanation of the Talent.  Every other Mutation/Trait listed in the Talent Group is mentioned however.  Clearly this means that either Multiple Arms and Winged should have been included in the body text of the Talent or not mentioned at all in the first place.

BirdofHermes said:

Winged and Multiple Arms were listed in the original manuscript, but removed subsequently - probably after the playtest. That they were still listed is a legacy error - something left over from a prior incarnation of the rules.

 Isn't the entire point of the Alt rank to deviate from ideal of Machines should replace flesh?

Badlapje said:

Little brown box on p70 / Into the Storm specifically states you can take missed / skipped skills and talents for double the original cost.

Vandegraffe said:

My group plays it that you can have 3 stacking armoured layers and inate toughness; like this:

external amour (carapace/etc) + skin (Tough Hide) + internal organs (The Flesh is Weak) +Toughness.

Subskin Armour replaces either external or skin.

Our explorator is running around with 62 toughness and subskin, tough hide, flesh is weak 2 for armour 6 (12).

Considering the inherent dichotomy between the Genetor viewpoint and what is expressed with The Flesh is Weak talent, I'd disallow it; you can still get other implants as normal, but a Genetor isn't going to be carving out flesh and replacing it with mechanics just because metal is better than muscle and sinew -- he's going to experiment on it and graft other components in it's place, staple on some extra implants that do other things, and make  the Ecclesiarchy very, very mad in the processes for defiling the human form in new and interesting ways.  But hey, you can't have everything when you've got wings and regeneration. 

Objulen said:

No wings for Genetors, I'm afraid. :|

Maybe and maybe not. What could one do with a sample of blood angel DNA just as an example. 

One of these days I'll have to have my players encounter an Imperial Cult that've recruited a Genetor to give them all wings and regeneration and thick, stony hides. They'll sit on top of cathedrals, completely unnoticed, until the time is right. The local townsfolk will point at them and say "Beware the Emperor's Gargoyles"

susanbrindle said:

Throw Inquisitor Xanatos in there for some fun.