ktom said:

I have (last week one opponet took all of his neutrals out of his deck and another kept Selmy in his hand the whole game), in fact my deck has changed from a i want to shoot my gun deck to a let me just flash my gun to make it harder for my opponet. I think it would be a big mistake to run neutrals or OOH at gencon right now too. without a regional season its ahrd to see the impact of these cards in a large scale.

People complained that LCG cardpool was limited, and one of the answers to that was OOh and neutrals....this just poops all over that idea and limits you more then the card pool does. FS i made a choice, awesome ability verse 2 str. Worse comes to worse i lose the awesome ability, MwnK i can't make that same choice becuase worse comes to worse i give my opponet that awesome ability. ANd i keep coming back to FS didn't do anything for the person who played it. MwnK can be played. not steal a character all game and still be very useful to you. FS is useless if there are zero 2 str or lower in opponets deck (and opponet is not limited if his gold curve is set up right)

Turn order isn't that big of a deal, he is non-unigue so you can have two out and not worry about turn order if its that big a deal to play a rein event. People complain about Bear island becuase running no neutrals hurts them....well bear island decks are a good idea now, so i guess thats a good thing about MwnK.

And can someone tell me why these guys are less of a problem then Jaquen? Especially since Milk of the poppy/Fishing net would have stopped Jaquen's power abilty where as those have no effect on MwnK? If the answer is because its a combo...well i think the combo makes it worse. With the reins event at the least you save a gold to steal a character or you pay 3 for your own charcater and the theft of another...

Really I think the only problem with the card is that its a permanent steal. How about it just gets changed to "take control of character until end of round." or something? It'd still be really strong without being overpowered. 

Lars said:

Who was the opponent?  I'm not sure how to evaluate the efficacy til I know if it was Jeff, Kevin.... or Ser Lannister.

lmao. kev took his cards out, jerry (silentsword) held selmy and serlannister cried all the way home.

Lars, who is playing Greyjoy in your meta? Winter Marauders will take care of MWNK every time, and would be my first hit with that card every time I won a challenge with them. Valar is going to knock them out of play, Milk is going to nerf them, and you still need to have gold. Again, a Winter Greyjoy deck can severly hurt a person replying on MWNK. And when Kings of the Sea comes out, Greyjoy stands a good chance of becoming the dominant house in the format. They are overlooked alot right now because of their lack of core cards.

I'll admit that the permanent steal is a nasty effect -- and because of that this card alone begs for Keeper of Oaths to be reprinted in LCG. I ran that card in virtually every deck, and although we don't have On Raven's Wings anymore, we do have Summoning Season. I remember playing a game where my opponent won an INT challenge agaisnt me with the Intrigue Gambit plot that "stole" characters, and with a claim of two got my Army of Scorpions and Lord Ander's Honor Guard. Guess what happened next turn? Perfect card for any pernament steal effects.

JerusalemJones said:

well until King of Seas comes out here is my answer to GJ. 1) run summer (it helps with the 'gold issue' too) 2) milk Marauders as unlike MwnK they can take attachments (milk isn't the answer at all for MwnK, no attachments except weapon, which oddly enough allows the control to protect them from icy catapult...). 3) valar is a minor inconvience since they are non unique. 4) even if i don't run summer my MwnK makes it really hard for your Marauders to win a challenge against me, you can put fishing net on them i guess, but what else do you have besides marauders and fihing net to help you win challenges? winter armada?  now your spending at least 7 gold to negate one 4 gold charcater. if its that big of a concern i'll go out of bara and run maester cressen, or better yet out of lanni and kneel the heck out of the maraduers (with either castellan or weary swordsmen or both...).

Until i see the king of sea pack GJ doesn't add anything to the equation that makes MwnK have less of an impact. and currently them and Martell are at a huge disadvantage with MwnK in the environment. W/out MwnK we might have seen a Martell deck or two at GenCon, and i hope king of seas doesn't get delayed.

While he is important enough to make you rethink putting high-priced nuetrals in your deck (I admit to taking all that are more than 2 gold out of decks - which says something), and I think that is bad for the game, he isn't worst than Jaquen.  Jaquen singlehandedly won games, while these guys are like Black Walder - a bit of a deterrant than a power card.

Any card that can be fairly useless and you have to put cards in your deck to use him...and might actually have a HUGE drawback if your opponent is playing them as well...? 

I wouldn't mind it if they had more in-house cards legal. 

But I agree with the gist - he is horrible for the game...is that a reason for nerfing?  Obviously or my Lanni deck would be drawing a lot more, and Jaquen would be finishing games for me :)  Any card that makes other cards basically useless I will never cry over seeing go away...

Rings, I still maintain that the reason PC got banned was simply because of the lack of Kings and Queens in the environment. That is the issue that made this card so prevalent out-of-house; in Lannister it is just one more way for them to draw cards. I hope that when KotS comes out, the Cache becomes allowed again.

Jaqen was a bad card for one reason "Jaqen H'gar gets +1 STR for each power on him." Without that line, Jaqen was an irritant, but not overly broken. To truly abuse him, you had to take the Voltron route. And people tend to forget that every traitor in 5KE hit him. Not a great form of control for JH, but still one more tool against him.

I believe that MwnK can be a threat, but I guess our meta must not be uber competitive because all though we all seem to be running the card, it rarely makes a difference in games. Of course, I also know that I have't built a strong deck as of late, but I'd rather see how this card affects the meta-game before it gets hit with the Nerf Stick. I'd rather see the game investigate all avenues of control over the card before it gets Nerfed.

Staton said:

Didn't I JUST say this on page one of this thread? Your back two days.....

And yeah  :

Any card that can be fairly useless and you have to put cards in your deck to use him...and might actually have a HUGE drawback if your opponent is playing them as well...?

But I agree with the gist - he is horrible for the game...is that a reason for nerfing? Obviously or my Lanni deck would be drawing a lot more, and Jaquen would be finishing games for me :) Any card that makes other cards basically useless I will never cry over seeing go away...

QFT