lurkeroutthere said:

Except for the little detail that a Chapter armoury is highly unlikely to include Terminator suits fitted for baseline humans…

lurkeroutthere said:

Considering that Rogue Traders are, according to the book, roughly par with Chapter Masters, it doesn't seem unreasonable that a rogue trader could've Acquired a suit of Terminator armor. Naturally such a thing would never be bought- nobody is running a terminator armor stand waiting for someone to bring up a wheelbarrow convoy with 529,593,058,397 thrones. But it's conceivable that a powerful and influencial Trader could call in favors and pull strings and maybe bribe a bit to have the Imperium send a suit his way, calling it a reward for blowing up a few dozen heretic planets or something.

When ever my players want something ridiculous like a suit of terminator armor, I never tell them no. Instead I make it the focus of an epic quest of doom to acquire it. I currently have a explorator player who is trying to figure out how to craft a suit of terminator armor so he can outfit the whole party with it. Other crazy plans I have players doing (or done) include:

-an sanctioned psyker trying to figure out how to make wraith bone and unlock the secrets of eldar tech.

-a space marine who is bound and determined to start his own chapter, that has a warrant of trade attached to it… and find all the lost primarchs… and revive the emperor.

-a navigator who is trying to unlock the secrets of his genes in order to gain control over the mutations inherent to the navigator gene.

-an arch militant who is trying to make a twin linked storm heavy bolter that he can actually carry and use personally.

-the same arch militant is also trying to develop psychic powers

-an inquisitor who has decided to try to turn tyranid monsters into cyber/psyber familiars (this one is lots of fun)

-an explorator who is trying to become a favored disciple of the Deceiver (yeah I'm talking about the c'tan) and alter himself into a necron lord equivalent

-a rogue trader who wants to carry a contingent of titans under his own control rather than the legio titanicus

My games can get rather amusing to me as my players try to accomplish these goals. More often than not I don't need a plot to keep them going as they try to achieve their personal goals.

It's one thing to say the imperium treats them as on par with chapter masters, Autonomy doesn't equal authority. It's also quite another thing to say that other chapter masters treat them on par with chapter masters. As always there's what you can do and what you should do. For my part I don't think the imperium itself has the ability to gift Terminator armor. You'd have to go directly to the Cult Mechanicus and talk to them. I just think that there are some thing that transend raw profit factor (as it's basically just money and favors) and go strictly into authority and might makes right. That's not to say that anything is impossible, more to say your just not going to get it with an acquisition test and even when you have it there will likely be some consequences.

"Except for the little detail that a Chapter armoury is highly unlikely to include Terminator suits fitted for baseline humans"

Clearly more sign that they not only stole priceless relics but profaned their machine spirits by making alterations to them.

lurkeroutthere said:

I never said it was Adeptus Astartes Terminator Armour, and I never stated that it was purchased.    Maybe I should of mentioned that an extremely powerful/legendary RT could of acquired one or two civilian models.  But anyhoot, it's completely up to the GM if you want your players to be able to acquire a set.  I've never had anyone ask for a set, and hopefully I never will.  Would be a very long endeavor indeed to procure said artifact. 

Cryhavok said:

I was going to do this with a Void-Master in a game that never manifested.

I just don't think there are civilian models in the conventional sense. Yes a very few inquisitors supposedly have some, but who the heck knows where they got them.

lurkeroutthere said:

The same unknown source that Rogue Traders access to get it? Hell, RTs get around a lot more than Inquisitors, so it's not too unlikely that they have access to things beyond even the reach of the Inquisition.

I don't know how you figure that, it's possible, even probably that Rogue Traders do more travel but it's usually going to be on the fringes or outside the empire. Inquisitors will do most of their busines within the empire itself. Presumably getting a set of normal human spec'd terminator armor is a matter of either getting ahold of an existing suit, or finding one of the few forge worlds that can make terminantor armor and then persuading them to divert a suit and refit it in your size.

Basically I think that Rogue Traders do not have things beyond inquisitors reach. Rogue Traders have a lot more raw wealth then Inquisitors, but actual power and authority? They have nowhere near. We can of course disagree on this.

lurkeroutthere said:

I'd say that they have parity as far as artifacts go- Rogue Traders have direct access to xenotech and forbidden artifacts via going out into the expanse and grabbing some from the locals, and Inquisitors can harvest xenotech and forbidden artifacts from the heretics and xenophiles that the Rogue Traders sell the artifacts to. 

Likewise, a Rogue Trader's tremendous services to the Imperium (If he's in the habit of colonizing planets and then turning them over to the Navy, or something similar) can give him nigh Inquisitorial levels of influence as far as asking for shinies goes.

I disagree a Rogue Trader going out and colonizing planets is essentially doing their job they are doing the bare minimum of what the Imperium expects them to do. I'm not saying they can't win accolades and gain favors with organizations, including the sort that might specifically allow them to be gifted with, or request terminator armor be prepared for them, but I do not believe it's the norm.

Part of this could be me but one of the big differences I see in some here's read on Rogue Traders. People seem to want to characterize Rogue Traders as well respected and powerful individuals, and they are in a lot of ways. They certainly fall somewhere above many planetary governors and things like navy captains. But amongst the high echelons of the Imperium, the sector, subsector, admiral and general rank? I kind of see them as barely tolerated to loathed because of their freewheeling nature. That's not to say that individual relationships can't trump and certain rogue traders and their dynasties can't be held in high esteem, but I don't think that's the default.

This particular discussion is about Terminator armor. Terminator armor is rare and for a while there wasn't even being made anymore (I guess that got corrected or retconned or something?). Almost every suit that gets made is earmarked to go to a chapter of space marines somewhere. Of the Space Marines who make up a elite tiny fraction of humanities military forces only 1/10th of their number are worthy to wear terminator armor because of it's rarity. Do some inquisitors get ahold of it? Yes some have. I havn't gone back and looked at inqusitiros handbook again but it wasn't a normal thing. But it's important to remember that inquisitors, depending on whose writing them have in theory unlimited power within the imperium. They can command or oder destroyed space marine chapters, execute high lords of terra, commandeer fleets and order populous planets put to the sword. Rogue Trader by comparison are really really wealthy conquistadors. They cannot command or requisition anything their charter doesn't expressly give them leave for. They can purchase a lot and they can earn favors but the two really aren't on the same scale.

Now it's all subjective and people can certainly run their game as they see fit and I could potentially be wrong. But this is basically my read on the setting. Trying to bulk Rogue Traders up to be on the same level as Inquisitors is false and I think comes from people not being able to grok the concept that while they are special little snowflakes they are a slightly bigger fish in a much bigger pond.

It also comes from the fact that the core rulebook explicitly says "The Warrant also elevates the recipient to the highest of ranks to which a servant may rise, granting him equivalent status with such men and women as Imperial Commanders, Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters. They are granted the power to deal with such peers of the Imperium as equals, and the Warrant allowing them to call upon what aid they can negotiate."

 It also gives 50 PF as the resources for a lesser inquisitor, and 120 for a Lord Inquisitor

My brother is my peer, someday he hopes to be a cop. Then he will be entitled by law to arrest people (with cause and all that stuff) carry a gun into a bunch of places I legally can't and other powers.. Just because I am his peer doesn't mean i get those same powers

Basically Rogue Traders are no longer Serf's int he grand scheme. That's not the same thing as having the same authority those other power blocks have. Also personally the PF chart in the book is horribly skewed to the point of being worthless. But honestly it doens't matter, an individual Inquisitors resources are kind of moot when they can point and go. "That naval task group, mine."

susanbrindle said:

Inquisitors have unlimited power inside and outside (this is debatable, as in "who has the bigger gun) the Imperium.  A RT has unlimited power outside the Imperium.  Only in the RT's wording of the warrant are they allowed to commandeer resources from Imperial organizations.  While the Inquisitor has the authority to commandeer that RT's entire Dynasty if he so chooses at any level of rank.  Of course, reprocussions can enfold for both sides.  Nuff said on that matter.

But this debate was about Terminator Armour, that, as mentioned, was once very very very very very (did I mention very?) rare.  As I mentioned earlier, I don't have the BC book that has human Terminator in it, but I do recall Inquisitors being able to acquire said armour.  How they procured it, I have no idea.  In the 20,000 some years of the Imperium's glorious history, I'm sure some human (civilian?) Terminator Armour was fabricated though.  So in theory, a powerful RT could of acquired himself a set through the ages.  Would the AdMech pay dearly to have that suit?  Depends if they made it for the RT or if the RT found it.  *shrugs*  All in all though, it is ultimately up to the GM anyway.  Happy gaming people.

I would say it is certainly possible to get one. But not from an acquisition roll. For me, they would have to meet certain requirements. In death watch the player has to meet certain glory requirements to be able to get one. As the imperium has the terminators earmarked for those great warriors of the astartes, getting someone to send one your way, legally, would require fame and renown that would eclipse all possible spacemarine choices for it. Then it would require a very friendly contact of great worth, who would have the skills neccessary to alter a tech artifact/relic, coupled with the will to do so, and the power to survive the accusations of heresy doing so might cause. Personally I would require at a minimum 150 profit factor, peer (highest level) with an arch magos of a major forge world, good reputation (highest level) with ALL space marine chapters who are supplied by said major forge world, Have role played into an actual friendship type relationship with said archmagos. And then I would make them deal with the consequences of pissing off all the jealous people, all the people who think it is heretical, and all the people who think your character is not fit to bear such a sacred relic into battle.

But legally isn't of course the only means. There is battlefield salvage (might be legal, but the chapter who lost it will likely hunt you down and take thier toys back.), but it might be more valuable to return it to the chapter that lost it than to try to adapt it to human use, and this would still bear the problem of adapting it. There is blackmarket/other illegal criminal ways of acquiring one, that could be an adventure in and of itself. And then there is always the option of going to the people who aparently forge human sized terminator armors and sell them: the dark mechanicus of the screaming vortex… you could have other diversions while you are there :D