I also beleieve in the random system because It'll give you a different experience every time. And as someone pointed if you roll bad the GM would let you reroll. And if you have some stats that are somewhat lower that others you'll have to roleplay you way out of it, and that's what roleplaying is all about :-).

I've noticed that when you play games where things are predefined on cards, you will get bored in the end because the cards become to familiar. It'll start to get boring.

This might be a report but my message seem to have been erased:

I also beleieve in the random system because It'll give you a different experience every time. And as someone pointed if you roll bad the GM would let you reroll. And if you have some stats that are somewhat lower that others you'll have to roleplay you way out of it, and that's what roleplaying is all about :-).

I've noticed that when you play games where things are predefined on cards, you will get bored in the end because the cards become to familiar. It'll start to get boring.
 

Given what apears to be such a small variance in character stats likely doesnt lend itself all that well to random generation so can see why they went for a point buy system.  The downside of point buy is the min-max effect that usualy happens in that less points get spent in atributes that are less directly going to effect what your career/ class/ profession stipulates the character's role will be, eg a warrior wont maximise their intelectual stats though they may still average them.

Though I do like the random rolling in 2nd ed and ultimatly your career advances had more of an impact than the rolls did themselves by the time you finish the first career.

Well, we don't know how much it will be possible to min-max with the new system - it's easy enough to put limits on that kind of thing, while at the same time maintaining enough flexibility to allow you to create the character you want.

And that's the important thing about a points-buy system. I know players who refuse to play WFRP because the odds of them rolling up a character they actually want to play are slim. "High WS, Strength and Toughness, but only Fel 24??? But I want to play a social character...."

macd21 said:

It's anecdotal, but the only people I've encountered that refuse games due to a lack of points buy do so because it prevents them min maxing their character.

There are only so many ways you can create a character, even less with the lack of variety that dice as stats produces. Which means if 2 people in a group want to create warrior characters then at chargen they will design their characters in a very similar fashion. With dice as stats, this will result in pretty much identical characters.

Hellebore

If you are playing with munchkins, you are playing with munchkins. If they want to create identical characters, so be it. It's what they want.

Min-maxing is only problem for those, who can't use a player's disadvantages against him. 

macd21 said:

That's not really true. Yes there are some Power Players that will always be dicks. But over the years I have seen a number of people that I considered to be good roleplayers who are happy to accept whatever they randomly generate suddenly when faced with a Points Buy system turn Min/Max.  

Ravenheart87 said:

Too true. In a v1 game once, we had a player who bought up every combat advance possible, leaving a career as soon as he had all the combat bonuses and ignoring the rest. Due to his lack of Willpower he spent half of any session fleeing in terror, gibbering insanely in the corner, or just drooling after a wizard cast (I think it was called) Steal Mind on him.

The last incident was particularly unfortunate, as the group wizard had been knocked unconscious the same turn, leaving me to fight a Necromancer, 6 skeletons, a Chaos Warrior and something mean and unpleasant. And I was not a combat character...

If you draw your career AFTER points are spent it would help prevent that sort of thing. But a person that draws a troll slayer, or a racketeer is naturally going to want their character's stats to complement the career whether it would realistic for that to happen or not.

We can start a poll here after 3 is released to see how many players design their characters in a min maxing fashion. My prediction is that most people will as control over a character rarely results in purposefully gimped characters.

Hellebore

I say roll the dice. You may get something you didn't want but play it anyway. You may find you really enjoyed that character. Random generation makes you try different things, which makes you better at playing in character.

Refusing to play any game where you can't make exactly what you want seems like actions of a spoiled brat, who feels they are entilled to have everything given to them. The kind where PCs can only die for plot reasons and only if the GM gets permission from the player before hand. I've turned away players like that in the past because my game worlds are not made of nerf.

You could roll random design points at character generation as a method of putting randomness into the game. I would probably have it something like 5+2D5 or something (depending on the amount of design points FFG  is giving you to start with of course). BUt I doubt you could roll random characteristics for the game due to the lack of variety in Dice as stats.

Hellebore

There is a place for both point buy and random generated. Although I'm pretty sure that if I need a point buy I'll turn to GURPS. In my opinion a point buy system needs depth. Lots of it. It generates the feeling that I need to have all of these talents and skills for the char. So the points spread out more naturally even for the munchkin.

Unfortunately 3rd ed doesnt look like it will have that depth, I think it should have stick with the random. I have to agree with some people here that randomness is also an important part of the grim Old World.

Either way it's no biggy and by far not on the top list of my worries about the new edition.

lordmalachdrim said:

No. Some people just like playing certain types of character, or don't like playing others. Some people feel that having random characteristics is an amazingly stupid way of creating a character, that it isn't a character, it's a random selection of traits, not a personality. Some people like coming up with a background and a concept for a character and having the traits reflect that concept.

macd21 said:

Which i prefer also. I hate Randomness for char creation. I have a design in my head and i like to see it implemented as good as possible.