ChaosChild said:

Honestly I really dont agree with this.  There are many board games out there that cost $70.  Most casual fantasy game player's would not consider this to expensive assuming they have a base level of interest in the game.  I would say that the realization that you're not getting a complete set of the cards with the purchase, and the necessity to buy useless multiple copies of cards to have a complete set (as is a reality in CCG's), is more of a deterrent to a casual player's than the extra $30.  Lets not forget many casual players are collectors at heart and place an intrinsic premium on having a complete set.  Further many causal players still like the option of building competative decks.  The necessity of having to buy useless cards to be competative is the main deterrant for people w.r.t. customizable card games, so I think this being the case in FFG's LCGs is a poor business strategy.  If they want to market the game as something refreshingly different from CCG's they should have definitely avoided this like the plague in my opinion, even if it would require $70 core sets.

What they really need to do is print a new Core set that rotates the old one out of competitive play.  Or at least establish a second tournament format where only the most recent core set + most recent X battlepacks are legal.

The cost to new players is already prohibitive; at some point, the economics of "well, if you want to build a competitive deck you need to shell out $700+..." are going to hurt new player acquisition.  WHI is already worse than competitive Magic: The Gathering for initial investment costs.  Not a good thing.

Too, as a deck builder, I am getting tired of factoring in cards like Master Rune of Spite, Reclaiming the Fallen, Judgment of Verena, etc when designing new decks.  Not that I necessarily think these cards warrant a ban per se... I am just tired of building with them in mind and would like to see a fresh format where some of the cards and strategies these staples hold in check can be allowed to shine.

ddm5182 said:

not that drastic cause then all of us wasted that money so a few new players can play u screw over all the old players but maybe a way of makin competitive decks with newer cards is also possible a new core set could be an idea but u should still have the original core set for thos who want a complete collection

I certainly agree with the idea of having new core sets of 3X cards. It would provide a starting place for new players who could then buy packs at their discretion. What exactly would this hurt? The sales of the old core set that's close to 2 years old? Not to mention, it would be like a super expansion set for older players who would certainly buy it. The weakness I've always seen in the LCG model is that the original release is required to play, therefore forcing new players to buy it. But with more and more packs out, you need to spend more money if you want to have options to customize your decks. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't like playing with the exact same deck over and over. I definitely think that every so often FFG needs to provide a starting point for new players who can then move forward with the new releases as opposed to having to go back and get the old ones.

 Honestly, I think the packaging of the core set was most likely a mistake just because it sets the entry price point too high.  I don't know how the costs work out (obviously) but selling the 4 core set races separately would presumably have moved the individual "starter" price down substantially. You'd have to package each race with a board, some neutrals and a handful of counters. Including a full playset worth of cards would emphasize the LCG model of no random distribution, which is one of the biggest selling points of the game IMHO.  Even if the overall price is substantially higher than the one-box model, that "first taste" price of $40 for a card game is quite the discouragement.

Now, it might well turn out that that separate race packaging is impractical because the cost is too high, but if it is at all doable, that seems like the most obvious way to sell the game such that you get more new players.  Also, I am betting that a good number of casual players are only really interested in playing 1 race anyway.

Aryan said:

Your case is really a clear example, and unfortunately there are a lot of other examples like this.

FFG should do something... core set 3x, or maybe starter kit, or core sets 3x mono race, i don't know what...

but it's clear something has to be done.

its definetely to expensive to start right now.

there has to be some kind of way to make it more attractive for new players.

i have many friends who like the game but dont buy it because of the starting cost.

and i know others that could easily afford 3 core sets etc. but dont buy them because they dissaprove of the sales politics.

a 3x core set or 3x versions of the 1. cycle would even be interresting for veterans.

because some of the rare cards would be nice to have 6x or even 9x like burn it down or clan moulders.

right now its hard to have decks for every race ready without card conflicts.

i would buy some of them again for sure.

but not as it is right now.

they should make a set of  core set ulthuan and the 1. cycle with all cards 3x and release it prior to xmas für 80 bucks.

and maybe add some deluxe playmats or higher quality capital boards and a rule book thats up to date.

although i have everything 3x id buy one.

I found this game pretty cheap to get in even if you have to by three core and three of a few other sets, I was able to get everything for about 425 which wasnt bad compared to what I use to pay for my CCG sets

For casual players like myself, I think the price to start (i.e. Core Set plus AOU) is definitely in the right area and the cards you get give a lot of options to play. In my experience, the cards delivered with those sets make for a good and varied game experience and the fact that some do not come in 3 is not an issue for a casual player. For the same price, I much prefer having a bit more variety in the pack rather than 3 of each, and as a casual player value that more than an easy transition towards tournament play.

If someone is serious about tournaments, this is not casual anymore and I would not assume such a person would not be put off to buy the additional 2 core sets and whatever else is required in terms of BPs and AOU. It would be nice if there was an option to buy only the missing cards to make 3 of each, but I hardly think this would be a show stopper for someone serious about competitive play. Heck, with the current scarcity of players even getting to a tournament would cost a bit of money too. In my case, I would have to travel 100 miles plus just to find a tournament...

Just my 2 cents...

Jvirtue55 said:

That only applies from a traditional CCG gamer point of view. The problem is that WHI has the potential to attract a lot of people that didn't play such games before like me and 4 other players from my region did. It could be even more because the interest is there but 400 $ is a barrier when you have other hobbies besides card gaming. It was ok by me because I started playing WHI when it came out.

WHI has a very good learning curve and can quickly drag the casual player into a more competitive one but the earlier release format really frightens off potential players that would otherwise continiually buy the battlepacks + expansions.

grille said:

I totally agree with both these points,  it's not realistic to comparre this game to CCGs because they appeal to different audiences.  LCGs are appealing becasue they theoretically dont require the large investment and uncertainty that comes along with CCGs.  I also think FFG is shooting itself in the foot by turning off potential players with the incomplete core set + ulthuan and corruption cycle.  THey forego alot of profits from future purchases of new releases by doing so.  I think they should do everything they can to "rope in" new players, new players who then procede to buy the entire WI library once they get addicted to the game.

I think they will wait till they sell out all their back stock of core sets

i agree, we want a 3x core, more expensive, of course, like 60$.

Here's an idea. What about releasing a Warhammer Invasion Core set expansion ?
It will only come with the cards needed to complete a full set. Example: 2 Demolition, 2 Judgement Of Verena, 1 Seduced by Darkness, etc. No need for Lobber Crews or Pistoliers since we already have a full set of those. The price could be the same they use for regular expansions such as Assault on Ulthuan and Marched Of The Damned.
This way, they won't need to repackage the Core set.

Another possibility would be to release faction specific pre-made decks that incorporate 3x copies of cards that were 1x copies in the Core set and the first cycle of battle packs. Such decks might be appealing to new players, who could sidestep the initial cost of buying 3 core sets plus 3 of every pack from the first cycle, and also to established players who could cherry pick the offerings to pick up the cards they'd like to have more copies of (Burn it Down, Troll Vomit, Verena, Clan Moulder Elite, etc.).

Papa