Yeah the source of the disgruntlement mystifies me as BL has received just as many expansions as BoW since the later came out. It's been dead even so far. If BoW were to never have existed at all they'd not have made more BL stuff they'd have just put those resources into one of their many other games. BL gets the resources it earns through people buying stuff for it.

It's not like BL was financially successful for DoW or they'd not have sold it so I'm not sure why there's this paranoria that BoW is somehow taking anything away from BL.  

BattleLore is a niche game. BoW is a niche game. They both get a decent amount of expansions given that fact. Memoir '44 has been out for 6 years and attracts a wider audience because of it's WW2 theme. Even with all of that it really doesn't have THAT many more expansions than BattleLore. I'm not sure how much faster people think it should get stuff.

The problem is that though BL and BoW are filled with potential, board gamers are a flighty bunch. They buy many games and few of them play a specific game the way a role-player or a table top miniature gamer would... with a narrow and devoted focus. That is why these forums are inactive. And the BoW's forums are inactive. And even the Memoir '44 forums are inactive. But take a niche miniature war game or collectible card game, and THOSE fans form communities. They're devoted.

Ask a table top miniature gamer what their hobby is and they'll tell you "Warmachine, Warhammer Fantasy, ect" They'll give you the name of the game they play. Ask a board gamer and they'll tell you they play board games. On further inquirery they might say they prefer eurogames or ameritrash. But few will mention a specific game.

Board gamers, because everything is ready-to-play, have less investment in a specific game line. And it's easy to move on to another. That's what they were looking for and that's what the product often encourages. BL and BOW are in a confusing middle ground where they have the ease of entry and components of a board game but the wonderful potential of depth and possibility of expansion that a wargame might get. It's their greatest strength but also a great source of confusion for their fans who want more STUFF at a faster rate but who together as a fanbase would never be able to support that appeitie financially.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. But it means products are released differently for those fans. Less frequently and either "all at once" in a big expansion a year or "bite sized chunks" every few months.

And THAT is why they never bothered to put up the scenario editor for BL. The BL online community wasn't vibrant enough to put the resources in to it. They tried it with Tides of Iron and I'm thinking they didn't think they got their monies worth out of it.

Not that FFG is the greatest at building online communities either though. It's just not their expertise. Or maybe, more accurately, they just have too many games to do that with any great effect.

 I don't want to see a separate Middle Earth game, but I would Love to see Middle Earth scenarios adapted to this one. We have most of the races necessary and we can proxy for those missing. Maybe I need to write and post a scenario from a ME battle.

DragonWhimsy said:

They don't even have two at this point. I like BoW a lot but it is not a C&C game!

As for the speculation, I think we will get a big announcement this week, a new base set for BattleLore with a new setting... In Terrinoth... They are going to announce a new Terrinoth based game at the Terrinoth event this week and BattleLore could work with that setting...

Aenea said:

If they were going to go 2nd edition, it wouldn't suprise me.  In fact, it might be a prudent move bringing BL into the Rune family.  Of course, it would be a very different game...but I'd buy it.

Thuddeus said:

You should do that, Thuddeus.  I haven't done much scenario creating since the early DoW days, but do intend to turn my hand there if official scenarios come to a close.

Possibly a point of inspiration for you, Don Clarke (Yangtze) has created quite a few ME scenarios, posted on the vassal yahoo group for BattleLore (languishing a bit, but still plenty of gems on it, and who knows, maybe another campaign game will break out at some point...) - here (I think one has to join the group to view these files, fairly painless process :) ).

There also was a campaign-style ME game going for awhile - one could argue how thematically consistent the play was, but not the fun factor :)  I think generating Call to Arms-style cards for particular armies and then Heroes for particular major characters in ME would go a long way in creating an even more immersive gaming experience.  No need for a stand alone game, though I would understand the fiscal reasons for doing so.

As for the speculation, I think we will get a big announcement this week, a new base set for BattleLore with a new setting... In Terrinoth... They are going to announce a new Terrinoth based game at the Terrinoth event this week and BattleLore could work with that setting...

I could see that if we didn't already know they were repurposing the french sets.

If you're going to relaunch it with a new setting Middle Earth has more fans to bring in though. On the other hand it may be impossible to use Middle Earth as Games Workshop still has the rights for miniature wargames set in that universe. Not sure how a BattleLore style game would count for licensing purposes.

I can see why it would happen though. FFG just isn't known for creating very many settings. Sticking BL in Terrinoth or Middle Earth instantly solves that problem.

I'm curious, would BattleLore fans be fine with having the game be in a new setting as long as it continued to use the command corridors?

They don't even have two at this point. I like BoW a lot but it is not a C&C game!

No reason to get into THAT discussion. ;)

However either way, despite rules differences, they are the same style of game and only hardcore fans of one or the other would think of them as different. I mean yeah they are different niches but they're not that far apart.

DragonWhimsy said:

Well, it's simple, Richard Borg created a set of rules with command cards and the cards let you order troops in sections on the boards, the cards can also let you order troops of a certain strength or type which are represented by colors. This rules system is called Commands & Colors.

Simply the fact that BoW doesn't use the sections and has different type of cards to order units with means it's not using the same rules system anymore.

If you look at all the real C&C games, they all have the 3 sections, they have the section cards and most of the other cards like first strike are there, maybe called differently (eg. Ambush in Memoir'44)...

My point was that they are both fantasy wargame/boardgame hybrids with a streamlined and fast playing system with 85% similar rules systems. It really doesn't matter to most players or the industry in general whether you call it Commands & Colors or not when you are considering a niche to be filled.

But I could be wrong. FFG will have three fantasy LCG's soon. If they go with a one expansion per season for each game like they seem to be the addition of a ME game would allow them to release one a month for each game in succession.

And there is the Hobbit movie down the road.