I request Fantasy Flight Games to fix current Nurgle after the Horned Rat Expansion. Even though some changes have been made to make him be able to advance dial more easily it is just not enough for him to win. There are plenty of ideas already over other forums like skipping Remove 1 corruption token or errata his cards. Please, support this great game.

 We decided that our fix to the new expansion set for Nurgle is to just use the old Nurgle cards lol. A little disappointing. Although skipping either the first or second dial advancement thing would be amazing, it's always disappointing with Nurgle when everyone else is picking their first upgrade card and you get to remove 1 corruption token. Yippee

It would certainly be nice to hear FFG chime with their stance on the "Horned rat" version of Nurgle.  Is everyone missing something here, or is there a real balance issue?

I hope i don't breake any rules on this forum by putting this link:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/722846/some-numbers-and-stats-on-balance

This is just one of several threads I came across. In each people complain about Nurgle losing each game. People try to use in play their house rules, with better or worse effect, however it would be best to follow official errata. I think one of the biggest issues with Nurgle is that he gets his first upgrade after every other player has already chosen one. It would not be shame for FFG to change this things. I thing they would show that they care about their customers and support their games with passion. I hope they will make this game even better. :)

My group finally tried a solution I proposed many months back, where you skip Nurgle's second dial tick so that he gets his upgrade on 2 ticks like everyone else.  The first (and only) game we played with this modification made a significant difference and Nurgle was able to win (along with solid play, of course).  Had we played without this modification Nurgle probably would have lost despite having the overall best play in the game, because the upgrades really helped him to seal the win.

We will play test more and see what happens, but so far this seems like a simple fix that brings Nurgle in line with the other powers.  It doesn't make him as powerful as Tzeentch or Khorne, but he at least becomes competitive.  I encourage everyone else to try this out and post your experiences and observations as well.

PS I also agree with you in how disappointing it is that FFG has not acknowledged the issues with Nurgle.

I've noticed the balance issue of expansion for a long time ago…. So our group simply play basic set with horned rat…

The most significant problem of the expansion is that expansion seems only force on how to make up the weakness of the Gods in basic.

They give Krone incredible power to scoring and want Nurgle to compete with him for dial advancing.

But over so much games u will find that Nurgle still need win by score. No need to mention that expansion usually end much earlier than basic set, the length of dial for Nurgle makes winning by dial become a hopeless path….

I believe that shorten Nurgle's dial will make the Nurgle player more comfortable but will not solve the problem of expansion fundamentally.

The critical problem is the "Upgrade card". Due to the shorter game turn than basic, you should give Nurgle five most powerful upgrade cards so that he can really fight against others. (E.g. During battle phase, For cultist being killed, +1 defense to you other cultists in this region. )

The upgrade card in expansion for Nurgle seems OK, but if u really play the game, you will find u need to collect two or three of them, then u are really able to compete with Krone for dialing. (But Krone already won…) Nurgle simply need one Upgrade fight to the end to deal with his long length dial.

For Krone, what not make the card (Once per round during battle phase, you may roll additional 3 dices, provided that you have at least one of your figure can contribute at least one battle dice).

Great demon (If your great demon is not on the board, you may choose on region, remove up to 4 corruption tokens belong to any players to summon great demon for free)

I don't understand these "Nurgle are weak" threads. Nurgle do just fine in our 3 player games at home. Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle, Nurgle won. Tzeentch, Skaven and Nurgle, Nurgle won. 2 different players both winning with this supposed weaker god.

Thx for your posts. I will check some ideas in my future plays.

TooNu, you are an exception that have no problems with his plays. However most of the people comply about the balance. It's a shame FFG can't take part in the discussion.

Nurgle is not automatically weak just because some people are saying he is, trust me. SOME of the people claiming he is have experience. But most are following sheep with 2-3 Horned Rat games under their belts, swearing off the expansion because they played Nurgle a couple times and lost because he no longer has an auto-pilot strategy.

The important thing to note is that there are few truly experienced players in the world. But of those that are, some have claimed Nurgle has done well in their games, but no one listens.

TooNu said:

This game is really meant as a 4 or 5 player game.  3 player games are not indicative of play balance, especially if you are leaving out Khorne.

The most experienced CitOW players I have come across are on Board Game Geek's forums and it is pretty well established, both through opinion and actual data of hundreds of games played, that Nurgle is weaker than the other 3 main powers (along with Horned Rat, but that is less of an issue since he is the "extra" power).

NidoKing said:

And plenty more claim he is too weak.  Data also suggests that he is weaker.  There are plenty of threads on Board Game Geek explaining why, and showing his impotence with actual data.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/987568/chaos-in-the-old-world-the-horned-rat-expansion/general

Why is it everyone says nurgle is weak but I think thats a load of crap always win as nurgle I think the reason people have such hard time winning with nurgle is because he is more of an defensive character as oppose to khorne who is the heavy hitter of the bunch

While I'd observe that anecdotal arguments of "Nurgle isn't weak because he often wins with our group" are hopelessly flawed and weak, I'd also note that a lot of the hard data collected at boardgamegeek doesn't meet rigorous standards either.

My criticisms of win data, for example, would note that most player groups found in the base set that Khorne felt overpowered in their first few games, then rapidly decided that he was underpowered. If you look at win data, therefore, there's often a skewing effect from players who submitted data after only 3 or 4 games, reporting that Khorne won 2 or 3 of them.

With the Horned Rat expansion, of course, the majority of players engaging were already relatively experienced with the game, so there was less of a "newbie bias" going on.

Naturally as well, this being the internet, many people may have been submitting data that supported their arguments rather than giving true accounts.

For my own part, I have formed a strong impression that the game is very much self balancing with an experienced playgroup, as if there are perceptions that one god has an easier time, playstyle adapts to keep that approach in check.

For example, the Bloodletters upgrade seems almost a no-brainer with the expansion in, and it seems simple for Khorne to romp to victory with it in play, as he can simultaneously pursue dial AND VP without having to compromise one or the other. It also seems as if the Bloodletter upgrade brings in way more points than any single upgrade ought to.

However, after a couple of games where Khorne romped to victory, our playgroup started to adapt. Just as we learnt to deny Khorne getting too many combats in the base set, we began to learn strategies that would play against the Bloodletter-romp-to-victory and incorporated them into our playstyle. Now we seem to have reached a point where Khorne is no better than Slaanesh or Tzeentch, though I admit that even now we can't resist picking Bloodletters as the first upgrade in every game.

At present, we do regard Nurgle as weaker in our games. He seems to be the only player who has almost no chance of a dial victory. He can do a VP victory, but in the current expansion, so can everyone else. He isn't even the best and fastest at gaining points, as far as we can tell. He's no longer the guy who can get lesser demons out most efficiently either (that prize goes to tzeentch with the horrors upgrade now).

However, I don't take this as definitive evidence that nurgle is underpowered.

He feels underpowered, but as yet I'm not sure that we're not missing something.

A few thoughts that I've been bouncing around, to improve my Nurgle game:

First off, he seems to be good at "splashing" corruption around the place. I can see that this can help him get Ruiner points and can accelerate the process of game ending on ruined regions / VP, which can only help him.

Second, he seems to be a lot better than he was before at gaining DACs. The fact that he has so many ticks to get to a dial victory means that approach is still out, but I think Nurgle is potentially very good at making sure nobody gets double advances. He can deal make with the players who aren't lined up for the double to help him keep the one who is from getting the double.

Third, the Khorne Bloodletter threat actively discourages players from spreading all over the map. This can benefit Nurgle, as if the other gods are gathered in a few places, Nurgle often has the best chance of dominating those places thanks to his cheaper lesser daemons.

I'm not sure any of these things are enough to bring him up to strength, but I'm reluctant to play any house rules until we've played Nurgle out a little more. I think - in fact I'm 80% sure - that Nurgle is too weak with the expansion in, but I'm happy enough that my playgroup tends to recognise that and devote less resources to keeping him in check because of it, and I wonder if there are strategies I haven't yet considered.

nunez24carlos said:

Incidentally, I think regarding any god as inherently defensive or aggressive is a mistake. Ultimately EVERY player needs to be fully aware of how each other player us approaching victory, and simultaneously excecuting board control and preventing others from exercising board control over him.

To think of Nurgle as defensive is to deny his greatest asset - 1 cost Plaguebearers, that let you create potential casualties for a single power point, and which let you aggressively control domination of regions.

To me CITOW is a game of balancing acts, efficient economy and calculated gambles. Which is why it is so awesome.