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The Ruinous Powers battle for dominance of the Old World!
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Tanan said:
Thank you for the answers!
phobiandarkmoon said:
I'd say that the KoS goes first, but you could argue it either way
I’d say that the Khorne goes first because:
Rulesbook page 9 wrote:
In many phases, all four Chaos Powers carry out actions that are interdependent (i.e., where the actions of one Power may depend on the actions of another). When this is the case, the players always act in Power order: Khorne first, Nurgle second, Tzeentch third, and Slaanesh fourth. For convenience, this is the order (clockwise from the top) in which the four dials are arranged on the game board.
New questions:
- The Khorne forces in the region consist of one upgraded Bloodletter and one Bloodthirster. The Nurgle forces in the region consist of one upgraded Plaguebearer and one Great Unclean One. The Bloodletter manages to cause one "early hit" and the Khorne player applies it to the upgraded Plaguebearer, which is killed and removed from the region. Can the Nurgle player assign the hit (caused by the death of the Plaguebearer) to the Bloodthirster?
-Rain of Pus has been played to the region. The Nurgle forces in the region consist of one cultist. The Khorne forces in the region consist of one upgraded Bloodletter. The Slaaneshi forces in the region consist of one upgraded Keeper of Secrets. The battle phase begins. KoS takes control of the cultist. The Bloodletter manages to cause five "early hits". Are both KoS and cultist killed?
Now that I've got the set in front of me - definitely the KoS because of the wording. Blood Frenzy says "At the start of battle in this region", whereas the KoS upgrade says "At the beginning of the battle phase". So the battle phase begins, the KoS steals someone, then we start resolving in region order. Blood Frenzy only kicks in at the time of that region being resolved.
Yes, any time you can assign hits in different sections of the battle phase, you can assign to attempt to kill something big with later attacks. There's an example in the rulebook of Khorne using Blood Frenzy for this purpose.
To summarise your last question - does Rain of Pus continue boosting the cultist's defence if he comes under the control of another player? The wording on Rain of Pus says "The defence value of each of your figures in this region is increased by one." This is a static effect that increases works on Nurgle's figures - it doesn't grant a boost until end of turn, it changes the game when the game asks 'how much defence does does this figure have?" So, as the rulebook states that a controlled figure takes on statistics and abilities as they were when the other player controlled them, but says nothing about continuous effects, the defence doesn't carry over, and thus the KoS and the cultist die (as they are killed simultaneously, the fact that the cultist would then revert to Nurgle control is irrelevant)
Hope is the biggest and best lie there is. Without Hope,we'd be nothing at all
Now that I've got the set in front of me - definitely the KoS because of the wording. Blood Frenzy says "At the start of battle in this region", whereas the KoS upgrade says "At the beginning of the battle phase". So the battle phase begins, the KoS steals someone, then we start resolving in region order. Blood Frenzy only kicks in at the time of that region being resolved.
Ah, you are correct.
Yes, any time you can assign hits in different sections of the battle phase, you can assign to attempt to kill something big with later attacks. There's an example in the rulebook of Khorne using Blood Frenzy for this purpose.
FAQ page 5 wrote:
Q: After acquiring the Plaguebearer upgrade, when does the Nurgle player assign hits for killed Plaguebearers?
A: Hits from killed Plaguebearers are resolved based on the part of the Battle Phase in which they are killed. If Plaguebearers are killed during a beginning of battle effect (such as Khorne’s Blood Frenzy card), then for each Plaguebearer killed during the beginning of battle step, the Nurgle player assigns one hit to that opponent’s figures before proceeding to the standard battle. During the standard battle step, damage is assigned after one player has completed all his attacks. For example, after Khorne has rolled all his battle dice and assigned all hits in a region, the Nurgle player then inflicts one hit per Plaguebearer killed by Khorne to an eligible Khorne figure in that region. However, remember that a player may not assign fewer hits to a figure than are necessary to kill it. Hits are not “stored up” to combine hits with other players or effects.
I think that designer's intent is that Plaguebearer hits are never "stored up".
To summarise your last question - does Rain of Pus continue boosting the cultist's defence if he comes under the control of another player? The wording on Rain of Pus says "The defence value of each of your figures in this region is increased by one." This is a static effect that increases works on Nurgle's figures - it doesn't grant a boost until end of turn, it changes the game when the game asks 'how much defence does does this figure have?" So, as the rulebook states that a controlled figure takes on statistics and abilities as they were when the other player controlled them, but says nothing about continuous effects, the defence doesn't carry over, and thus the KoS and the cultist die (as they are killed simultaneously, the fact that the cultist would then revert to Nurgle control is irrelevant)
Are you sure that kills are simultaneous?
Rulebook page 15 wrote:
To assign hits, once all battle dice have been rolled (including additional dice from any die explosions), the player simply announces, for each hit, which enemy figure, or Peasant token, he is targeting. Each hit must be assigned to a target in the region whose battle is being resolved. A player may not allocate hits against his own figures (unless they are controlled by another player – see “Control of Enemy Figures” on page 25). If enough hits are assigned to a figure that they equal or exceed its defense value, that figure is tipped onto its side to indicate that it has been killed. (However, it will not be removed from the board until all players have rolled their battle dice for the region; see the next page.)
The way I read it, the Khorne player could first assing four hits to KoS, killing it -> The cultist returns to Nurgle control -> Khorne player can't assign a hit to the 0/2 cultist -> The cultist survives.
Tanan said:
Rulebook page 15 wrote:
To assign hits, once all battle dice have been rolled (including additional dice from any die explosions), the player simply announces, for each hit, which enemy figure, or Peasant token, he is targeting. Each hit must be assigned to a target in the region whose battle is being resolved. A player may not allocate hits against his own figures (unless they are controlled by another player – see “Control of Enemy Figures” on page 25). If enough hits are assigned to a figure that they equal or exceed its defense value, that figure is tipped onto its side to indicate that it has been killed. (However, it will not be removed from the board until all players have rolled their battle dice for the region; see the next page.)
The way I read it, the Khorne player could first assing four hits to KoS, killing it -> The cultist returns to Nurgle control -> Khorne player can't assign a hit to the 0/2 cultist -> The cultist survives.
Hmm, possibly. I think we then move to the question of why the hell Khorne chooses to do that, but fair enough.
Regarding plaguebearer's hits, I've seen confusing examples of being able/not able to assign partial hits. So the way I play it is to allow storing of hits in the battle phase within one player's hits over that battle phase - e.g. Khorne's Battle Frenzy and regular speed attacks.
Hope is the biggest and best lie there is. Without Hope,we'd be nothing at all
I think it would be most excellent of there was an official statement on the following as it has caused a fair argument at my FLGS.
I believe that Nurgle/Tzeench/Slanesh only gain 1 dial advancement counter per 2 corruption they place once. However they are all currently voting me down saying that if they place 4 corruption they get 2 dial advancement's; 6 corruption=3 advances, etc... With the wording on the cards I just don't believe this is true, I'm not sure that the F.A.Q. covers this specifically; I wish it would!
Any help would be fantastic.
... All the cards say 'if you place two or more corruption tokens in a region with ...'. So clearly placing four tokens in a region is two or more, and thus is one dial advancement token, in the same way that Khorne gets only one token if he kills 5 figures in a region
Hope is the biggest and best lie there is. Without Hope,we'd be nothing at all
Hello.
When Khorne play "Blood Frenzy" card in region, with not attacking figures ( only 2 Nurgle's cultists and 3 Slaanesh's cultists ), did Khorne roll two dices in this case?
On card written "before battle" ( so, no battle - no before battle ), but FAQ mention that "Blood Frenzy" means "before battle phase".
Thank you.
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